General Chat

Has this man got no stance as PM that hes asking US of all places ! to come in and sort us out over crime .......fgs,!!

But sometimes, you have to think 'outside the box'. So any suggestions from a different view point should be considered, even if they are later rejected.

And didn't the previous Labour Government invite non supporters but knowledgeable people in their field to give advice? No difference really.

Just seen this comment on Twitter...From an ITV reporter

Met Inspectors fed branch on Bratton: ACPO & Police Fed are in much better place to advise PM than an American-why won't PM consult us?


That just about says it all. EVERYONE is asking not to cut police, EVERYONE is prepared to discuss what's to be done, yet our Primeminister is not prepared to listen to the people that matter, those on the ground.

This is not the US, and thankfully this is not New York,

It's not the PM who should be speaking to US police, it's our police who should be doing that, The PM SHOULD be talking to our police and it doesn't seem that he is. Nor is he listening

I think they should sort out the justice system first, what is it that they give suck lenient sentences.

I take it this thread is about the recent looting and the way the police reacted, I just despair as to how our namby pamby judges will react.
Slaps on wrists and telling the criminals not to be naughty people.

It must be maddening for the police to arrest these looters and like only to see them walk free from court.

George

I agree George, but that's a bit like mopping up the water without turning the taps off.

Yes, Bratton, a retired New York cop, who was the key figure in reducing gang crime in NYC is on his way over to talk to the PM about how he did it and how our own police could do it.

Point is, should he be talking to the police and let THEM consult the PM? Police are supposed to have operational independence.

I do think Bratton will be useful, One of the first comments I've just seen about his views on it all is this. "Parents bear the ultimate responsibility,” he said. “But some of them are so disengaged that they’re of no value."

We've already seen that in the courts this week. Only yesterday a 14 year old was there without her parents, who were apparently both at work. The Judge had to ORDER her parents to come to court.

Hes agreed according to Sky,,,,but I'd be looking at countires where crime is very low comapred to ours and be asking how they manage it...not a country that has more crime per inch than most places.

Perhaps we should ask the police from Singapore, they don't stand any nonsense.

George

If it was about crime in general Kay, I'd agree, but this is specifically about gang crime, which is rife in some parts and has been for years, and that is what he dealt with in NYC and reduced.

Those countries with a lower crime rate probably don't have as much of a gang-culture crime rate either, Not because they are dealing with it, but because it wasnt there to BE dealt with.

A different point of view can always be useful, BUT this man should have been asked to talk to the police, not the prime minister. Why is it that officials will not listen to the rank and file anywhere, in any situation.
If the PM is not talking to the police, why not? And are the Chief Constables listening to their Inspectors and sergeants?

Thats it T, why havnt youths in other countires of low crime see fit to form gangs,what makes them not need to,,is it,,,,,a better standard of living? more home life? parental guidence? more respect within a family home? better education?a more stable society?.more police power?

some where something is lacking with ours.

Specifically on gang crime then some advice from US may well be useful. ( I'm idly wondering though what the percentage of police is in NY that is of the same ethnic origin as the people they police...I think that does matter!).

But it won't help with the 'non-gang' criminals....and I'd guess looking at those going through the courts so far that describes the majority.

No it won't help directly Rose,but let's not forget that in the main, these riots took place in areas where there are heavy Gang-related crime statistics. That's no coincidence. The gang and drug culture has a lot to answer for from a community point of view.

Let's not also forget that the majority of the people actually involved in the looting were doing it because everyone else was doing it. They would not have even considered it on their own. People were following like sheep a small minority.

Also, and I've said all along, not only was it pure criminality, but also the fashionable 'let's fight the police' trend among youngsters and certain factions of society. They don't view police as 'law enforcement officers there to protect society', but have a misguided view that they are there to control society as a police state. (they should try living in a real police state, but thats a different debate) Our police, no matter what they do, have no respect. It was realised decades ago that there should be more policing of communities using police of the same ethnic origin as those within the communities. That didn't work, they were stoned and targetted as 'the enemy' more so that white british officers were.

I don't have a problem with it.

He can speak to the devil himself as far as I'm concerned.. if it made a start on reducing gun crime and making the streets safer !

You wouldn't you Tory you! lol..

The point is, its up to the POLICE to seek information elsewhere, they are supposed to have operational independence, that is to say, away from Governments telling them how to act, what to do, how to tackle crime. It is NOT up to DC to speak to foreign police, he should be speaking and listening to ours....and he isn't! Why not? Why won't he consult our police?

DC is always spouting about how police have operational independence, yet he seems unwilling to let them have it, or give them credit when they do act. ie, taking credit for placing 16000 extra police in London, giving them authorisation to use baton round. That was already in place, before he got back to England.

Is there anything stopping the police commissioners from actually talking to anyone else themselves? Or is it really an either/or situation. A fresh pair of eyes and a different perspective is surely better than the impasse we seem to be in at the moment. This guy has experience....let's learn from it rather than ignore it !!!

I honestly don't see it as a problem..if he did nothing and spoke to no one he'd get a kicking for doing nothing lol.
x

I dont' have a problem in taking lessons from this person, my point it, it is not up to Cameron to do it. He should be listening to ours first, and yes they are talking to him. The head commissioner bloke has said to him already, if he cuts, they will lose police on the ground, and because they are already taking measures to tighten up their own spending he is also NOT asking the government to throw more money at them. Year 1,2 and 3 they will be able to cope, year 4 is going to be very different.

I know cuts have to be made, but this week has illustrated that, although no extra spending is needed, let the police make their own cuts, as they are, and not be strangled by government.

Isn't it also a form of cut by not increasing spending in necessary areas? This is our security, and we can all see where this will end up if the police do not have the proper support and resources to do their jobs.

It is also going to cost to put some of the practises in place as were in NYC, how is that to be funded from a cut budget?

I have to hold my hands up and say that police numbers aren't my specialised chosen subject.....I shall endeavour to pay more attention and read up on it a bit more....

But in terms of Cameron speaking with Bill Bratton....I just don't see what the big deal is x

"Policing costs £283 per person
annually in the United Kingdom. This amounts to over 3 per cent of the UK’s total annual public sector expenditure"

"New York
The per-capita cost of policing this year is $238, if the budget is approved."

Don't know if there are any conclusions to be drawn but I thought it was interesting.

Remember, these Senior Policemen are the same ones who did a lot of Backstabbing and got rid of the Policeman from up North ( think it was Middlesborough ) when his clear up rate was to good. I now think he is the Mayor of somewhere.I expect the name is known to somebody on here.so I think their View is a bit suspect ( My Opinion) and they seem to spend more time looking after the CPO Association and being PC.Than doing the job WE pay them to do.**M**.