General Chat

Could someone help me find maybe an adoption around 1894.
as no birth records can be found
The details i have are Grace Emily Rugg borrn in Birmingham 1894 so the 1901 census state. Father Joseph James - Mother Jessie.

Thank you for your time.
Margaret

Unfortunately official adoptions did not start until the 1920s.

Thanks, i was wondering when they started.

1911 census says married 21 years however cant see a marriage
RUGG, Joseph James Head Married M 56 1855 Engineers Pattern Maker Cornwall Truro VIEW
RUGG, Jessie Wife Married
21 years F 43 1868 Birmingham Hockley VIEW
RUGG, Grace Emily Daughter Single F 17 1894 Thimble Wirer Birmingham Hockley VIEW
RUGG, Leonard Lucas Son M 14 1897 Printers Puller Off Birmingham Nechells VIEW
RUGG, Winifred Amelia Daughter F 9 1902 School Birmingham Nechells VIEW
RUGG, William Samuel Son M 2 1909 Birmingham Nechells VIEW
RUGG, Nora Rachael Daughter F 0 (10 MONTHS) 1911 Birmingham Nechells VIEW

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so heres Leonard Lucas/ Lucas leonard

Births Jun 1897
Rugg Lucas Leonard Aston 6d 331


Births Jun 1901
RUGG Winifred Amelia Aston 6d 340

Births Jun 1908

Rugg Samuel William Aston 6d 332


Births Jun 1910

RUGG Norah Rachel Birmingham 6d 125

So all except Grace !

wonder if this is her though
Births Mar 1894

Bryant Grace Emily Birmingham 6d 171


One of the other childrens birth certs will give Jessies name so i would get one of those first.

Grace seems to be the eldest so could well be Jessies child only

Thanks Shirley, i do have them details, but i can't find a birth records for her, even been to Birmingham Reg office and nothing shows up, so thats where i was wondering if she was adopted in any way, and kept it in the family as you do.
Regards Margaret

I think I would buy the birth certificate for Lucas or one of the younger children to find Jessie's maiden name, then look to see if Grace Emily was born with Jessie's surname before marriage.


Gwyn

I would certainly buy one of the other childrens birth certs to see Jessie's name.

After 1875 births had to be reg so Grace must be there somewhere

just noticed this birth and death which might be first child?

Births Jun 1892 (>99%)


Rugg Joseph Birmingham 6d 45

Deaths Jun 1892 (>99%)


Rugg Joseph 0 Birmingham 6d 25

hes single in 1881
GORDON, William H Head Married M 30 1851 Tinsmith
Southampton
Hampshire VIEW
GORDON, Mary Ann Wife Married F 38 1843
Christchurch
Hampshire VIEW
GORDON, William A Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar
Southampton
Hampshire VIEW
GORDON, Mary L Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar
Southampton
Hampshire VIEW
RUGG, Joseph J Boarder Single M 27 1854 Model Maker Engine (M)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Truro
Cornwall VIEW

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RG number:
RG11 Piece:
1206 Folio:
61 Page:
16

Registration District:
Southampton Sub District:
Southampton Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Southampton St Mary Municipal Borough:
Address:
21, Derby Road, St Albans Ter, Southampton St Mary County:
Hampshire

Joseph was married to Aymers she went to America, it crossed my mind her was a bigamist. or would have if he married Jessie Jones. Will get a birth cert for one of the children.

Thanks for all you help in looking.

Margaret

So she was Jessie JONES...?

Gwyn

not finding them in 1891

so the marriage I posted was him I deleted it cos he said he was single in 1881 ??
Marriages Jun 1876

Aymers Douglaseanie Loughbro' 7a 223 >>>
Mulford Caleb Loughbro' 7a 223
Neal Fanny Loughbro' 7a 223
Rugg Joseph James Loughbro' 7a 223 >>>

so explains why no marriage cert to Jessie

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could be another child
Births Jun 1899

Rugg Jessie Elizabeth Aston 6d 356

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Deaths Sep 1900

Rugg Jessie Elizabeth 1 Aston 6d 208

I certainly agree with the proposal of getting Lucas's birth certificate to learn the mother's full name.

For the birth Shirley suggested

Births Mar 1894
Bryant Grace Emily Birmingham 6d 171

there is no childhood death under that name, and no marriage of a Grace E Bryant in that vicinity.

So you have the situation I have in my Hill/Monck family: the appearance from nowhere of a Grace Emily with one surname, and the birth and subsequent disappearance of a Grace Emily with another surname who matches for birthdate and location.

(My Ernest Hill was born and married and had a child, his wife died shortly after, in 1873, and he disappeared forever. Ernest Monck then appeared in 1881 and became my gr-grfather. I matched them up the way Shirley did with Grace Emily. We see quite a lot of this on the Find Ancestors board, where questions like this are best posted.)

Forgot to check the actual 1991 census page says 8 children 2 died so that looks like the two children we have posted.

Thats another problem lost on the Jessie Jones, maybe following the wrong tree there, thats why we are trying to find Grace Rugg to see if she is the mother. As we can't find a marriage for her to Joseph but he could still have been married already?

Thanks again
Margaret

Well divorce wasnt an option then Some parted and then did remarry ,bigamously ,but looks like Joseph didnt as there's no marriage cert to Jessie

Not a great match on the birthdate in 1911, but not unusual:

Name: Jessie Rugg
Birth Date: abt 1873
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1938
Age at Death: 65
Registration district: Birmingham
Registration County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 457

Why do you think she was Jessie Jones?

Not seeing any death for Joseph James Rugg.

well as you cant match up to Graces birth cert and you know she had siblings, then as we have said you need to get one of the other childrens certs.

Grace married as Rugg
Marriages Mar 1914

Rugg Grace E Morris Aston 6d 573
spouse MORRIS Alfred H

You say that Aymers (Rugg) went to America (the United States?). Is there any chance that Joseph did too, accounting for him not being found in the 1891 census?

Who is this in 1901?

Name: Rebbie Rugg
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Joseph Rugg
Mother's name: Jessie Rugg
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Aston

Joseph Rugg 48
Jessie Rugg 33
Rebbie Rugg 10
Grace Rugg 7
Lucas Rugg 4


Marriages Sep 1927
Rugg Rebbie L Webb Birmingham N. 6d 1195

1911
RUGG REBBIE LETITIA 1891 20 Solihull Warwickshire - servant


No birth of a Rebbie to fit. That's a pretty unusual given name -- and pretty American sounding.