General Chat

There are many 'cults' practising in the UK today. Some of them are acceptable and protected by law, even though their belief systems may conflict with 'national interests'.

By cults, I mean movements such as the scientologists, mormons, jehovahs witnesses, 9/11 truth, Kaotians, etc. Maybe the word cult will offend - so a substitute phrase might be 'minority belief system' or whatever.

Those that could be classed as a religion are protected by law, even though, as in at least one case, followers are bound to refuse military service, dont recognise the government and cannot pledge allegiance to their country. Even voting is seen as a sin.

How many of these cults should we tolerate and should there be a line drawn that must not be crossed - i.e. if any practises are likely or liable to cause physical or mental harm then should they be illegal?

~~When I think of a cult..of any description..the one example that always springs to mind is The `Jonestown` Masacre of 1978..which is a prime example of brainwashing and manipulation of people.
`Minority Belief system`..?..That is just a euphamism..in my minds eye..A cult is a cult..and a dangerous concept in the hands of a psychopath..or those that love power..Would one consider the Nazis to be part of a `cult`?..One leader..with many followers..following one `religion`..and thought process..

Now I started writing...but it is too early to think straight...however looking back to the '80s...i remember the problems with th 'Moonies' the 'Unification Church' as i think it was officially called . They (allegedly) used brain washing# tactics on its recruits. So on that basis your " if any practises are likely or liable to cause physical or mental harm then should they be illegal" seems about right.

Difficult, because any minority group. cult. , call it what you will can cause unrest, distress...but as you say a fine dividing line...in terms of freedom of choice and freedom of speech....


I personally find it annoying that the JWs and the local born-again Christian can 'invade my privacy' in order to promote what they believe...but then I find it equally annoying that double-glazing firms can do the same! lol.

I personally don't think that being unwilling to fight for your country should be any issue , that has always been the case for example with Quakers I think ? who in all other respects have been a full and indeed very important part of society.

Rose xx (who needed at least 2 more coffees before replying lol)

Yes, I dont take great issue with the conscientious objector bit, I only mention it really because of the 'citizenship' classes and tests that immigrants must go through, but a person who converts to a certain religion automatically 'renounces' the government, the flag, loyalty to his or her country......just an interesting little paradox. Would a person of that faith who wished to come to the UK as an immigrant be allowed to?

I dont know....but I find the conundrum intriguing, lol

5 facts of a cult:-
1..uses psychollogical coersion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain followers.
2..It forms an elitist totalitarian society.
3..Its founder leader is self appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma
4..It believes the `end`..justifies the `means`
5..Its wealth does not benefit members or society..

Taking these facts into consideration..I can not see anything positive about a cult system..

seems to me that cults recruit from the vulnerable and disenfranchised of our society - these people have a longing to "belong" and are easy targets for cults

lol

If we use that definition of a cult - not one that I necessarily subscribe to, but I have seen it before - then how much of it applies to, say, the Roman Catholic church....or the C of E....or Islam....

But I dont think anyone would call them 'cults' without causing offence.......

Don't know for sure....but i suspect there is an 'exemption clause' or several being written as we speak....

Yes and interesting that they recruit `youngsters`..often those that are either teenagers..people in their 20s..people that are easily manipulated...

Why? you thinking of starting one? lol

Lol GG ...the ' Followers of Eldrick' has a certain ring.......:))

Ann of Green Gables


Today at 10:37
seems to me that cults recruit from the vulnerable and disenfranchised of our society - these people have a longing to "belong" and are easy targets for cults

Well said Ann

The modern "cults" are the street gangs and their indoctrination of today's lost youth, easy targets because of the need to "belong"

It's Interesting that you use Mormons as a cult example .No such church exist. The real name of it is The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints .
As for the point of facts about cults
1..uses psychollogical coersion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain followers.

I can say that as someone that was converted at the age of 13 I had no coersion and my parents consent was asked for .They are not members.Had they refused no entry into the church would have been allowed by the church.

2..It forms an elitist totalitarian society.

Well if you mean by that we think ourselves about the rest .I can assure you we dont. If anything we think ourselves just as frail and imperfect as all others . Be we do strive to be good.

3..Its founder leader is self appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma

Well there you have a point was the leader of the Church self appointed ? Only God Knows and if you dont believe God can tell you then things are hopeless for you.

4..It believes the `end`..justifies the `means`
Dont we all believe that if God tells us to do a thing a certain way thats the best way to do things .

5..Its wealth does not benefit members or society..

I have seen the wealth of the church .It benefits members and non members alike .

I find it increadable that you choose a genealogy site to discuss these things .

By your statements the early Christian church would not have been allowed to flourish.

However One statement I agree with is church should be allowed to inflict physical punishment on its members contrary to that persons free will.
A person should be allowed to leave without persucution if they wish to.

Ron

You argue from the position that there is a God. It is your right to believe that. It is not your right to inflict that belief upon others.

I argue from the position that there is no such thing.

If you read the posts - I said that I dont necessarily agree with that definition of a cult.

Frankly, I find things about the LDS ridiculous, but I would not disparage them. Any more than I would any person for their beliefs.

What I do find arrogant and despicable is when cult members tell me that I am doomed to an eternal damnation because I refuse to accept their beliefs. That is coercion, is it not...? ( I dont know if the LDS preach this, nor, frankly, do I care as it makes not a jot of difference to me)

And as for being amazed at this on a FH website - it is no more amazing than any other topic - but you are interested enough to reply .....!

And as for your physical punishment comment, I am assuming that is a typo. Please tell me it is a mistake!

Ron this is a general board and all subjects are discussed here ...(even genealogy!)...as long as they do not break GRs terms and conditions.

Quoting Eldrick "Maybe the word cult will offend - so a substitute phrase might be 'minority belief system' or whatever."

I personally would not say that The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints (Mormon Church to a lot of us in UK ) was a 'cult'...anymore than Roman Catholicism is...

One thing I would say though is that speaking from the view point of an amateur genealogist...the Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints has been a 'Godsend' !

Rose xx

Hey! Maybe we should go back to the good old days - when the Christians would torture and/or murder anyone and everyone who would not convert to Christianity?

Was watching Qi the other week and a question was which part of England was the last place to convert to Christianity. The answer was a an island (Wight or Man?) and 75% of the Pagen population got wiped out.

The various religions around the world have been responsible for a lot of wars and deaths in the past and present - maybe ALL of them should be banned?

And I find the continual stirring by the national newspapers against other religions in this country quite sickening... and fear where it will lead to.

Sue

Answering the original question....
When does a Cult become acceptable?
My personal opinion-when it's disbanded,my sis is in the WI & I'm starting to wonder about that.. :)

The WI a cult, lol....well, I suppose.....

After Calendar Girls....

:-)

W.I. love it tiger lol, jam and Jerusalem and all that lol..."Cults" they must have started way back with clans ect and lateral thinking...Everything else is a follow on..

No cult or religion should be allowed to force its way of belief on any human being. Both C of E and Roman Catholic have done that, as well as the Jones cult. I find both unacceptable. I speak politely to JWs if they call but do not agree with them. I try to obey the Guide law, which is a set of rules similar to Ten Commandments and encourages you to be as helpful as you can to others and not to be selfish. Not always possible but worth trying. Jean