General Chat

Hi, Even if children have special needs they cannot be allowed to get away with violent behaviour. If they do not learn to control themselves when they are young imagine what they will be like when they are adults. Any child who is violent has no place in a mainstream school. The staff and children have a right to feel safe in their workplace. Gwynne

I think most people would agree that parents should discipline their children and teach them to respect school authority. The problem is that some parents don't respect the school - often the ones whose children misbehave. They might also not have enough money to pay a fine. What then? At my son's school there are boys who think being suspended is a joke and one of them went with his mother to her workplace and said he earnt more money that way and he'd rather not bother with school. He's 14 and in the 50s he could have left school, to everyone's relief. But now he and the school have to tolerate a couple more years. nell

Gwynne I agree with you totally. No one should get away with violent behavior. Hence they should, if the situation does not improve after say 6 months to a year, be transferred to a specialist school who can give them the one to one they need. However some of those with special needs such as Autism, Aspergers, or AHAD often find it hard to control themselves in situations. Its not just about learning to do it, some of them are just unable to. Last year there was a 10 year old boy in our school. He caused so much havoc, threatening teachers, abuse, disrupting school etc, he was suspended several times and for the last six moths or so, was excluded from school.. .........what the other parents who moaned about him didn't know...he has Aspergers (a form of autism). Hence the rages, etc. He has a medical condition, and although it wasn't fair on his peers, he was labelled by other parents as a little bad behaved s*d ! He started senior school in September a specialist special needs school in Harlow. Apparently they have the resources to help him and he is improving in leaps and bounds. If this help was available for primary school kids like this, then 2 thirds of the kids who disrupt at school would have help, and so would the teachers who have to put up with the abuse. E x

There is help available for children who have learning problems - we have access to a behaviour support unit for children that find discipline and authority difficult. Of course you have to fill in lots of forms and jump through the right hoops to get it, but it is available. The Unit can observe the child, suggest strategies and provide extra people to come in and work with the child. nell

We have a new head teacher and he bought in that when a pupil is really bad he requests a parent to come in and do detention with their child and apparently many do. Discipline is slowly improving Star

Unfortunately, some teachers and students neither feel nor are safe in their workplace, if and when behaviours which would not be tolerated in any other social or public setting, occur with regularity in theirs. With regards parenting. The obnoxious child, whose only challenges are those which parents create by means of overindulgance and/or neglect of parental responsabilities. Is found at and in, every socio-economic level of society. Just as responsible parents and well raised children are. Patty

Was going to post a similar thread myself. If anyone thing in this country was black and white, here we have it. Unfortunately, like other initiatives before it, this will fail. Too many bad parents; lawyers; wimps of school governers frightened they will get sued; and all the usual do-gooders; european parliament et al. Happy days

Hi Elaine, I do understand special needs. My nephew is autistic and I have taught in 2 special needs schools, one of which was for children with behavioural problems. This is why I say that violent children (whatever the cause) should not be in mainstream schools without one to one supervision. We have a duty to all children to keep them safe. If a child can be unpredictably violent it puts all the other children at an unacceptable risk. He needs to be in a school that can give him one to one supervsion. Gwynne

When I was at Grammar School, When the deputy head, with his Cap and Gown, called out '' Boy!'' you immediately froze. you instinctively knew that he meant........... You!!! Bob

Bob, no more to be said!!lol respect I think that was called, I remember it somewhere down the line!!

Patty, Hi nice to see you, I agree parents need to take more control too, its a matter of balance. Roxanne x

I have to dissagree that there is plenty of help at primary level. The lad mentioned in my posting earlier, has had the same behavior problems since nursery level (before he was diagnosed) Apparently he was supposed to have someone sit in class for x amount of time a week to give support...I believe it was only once or twice he had this help, then nothing. What these kids are supposed to get they often dont. Its not for want of trying for this lads parents... Its all down to money....

behaviour in schools is the biggest ever problem, over the years it has gotten worse and worse, to the point now where children in reception class will swear at you, kick or punch you, telly you 'no' and then you follow the behaviour policy which all parents have to agree with before their child starts school, only to have parents coming in moaning that there child is being bullied by teachers, to be truthful your in a non win situation. Yes there is sanctions in school, miss a playtime, dinner time, go home for dinners, have your parent sit with you in class, lines etc etc, none work at all, as children don't fear anyone at all. Its about time something happened in school but more preventions and strategies are need to be brought in before it begins to get out of hand.

A couple of you have suggested parents going into the school, sitting in their child's class. My husband and I have offered to do this when our son was very disruptive during the months before the summer hols this year, but we were told 'It's not school policy'. So that idea went out the window.

Some years ago, we had a foster child who was being bullied because a child had taken a gun into school and he was accused of taking and hiding it. He and his friend, also accused, came home to lunch and I spoke to them and foun out what I could. J denied any involvement, which did not really mean anything as he always denied things, even if you saw him doing them. After lunch I went to the school with them, and the problem with the other child was sorted out, although noting was done aboiut the child who took the gun into class. (The teacher thought it was a sawn off shotgun, the boys said it was some sort of rifle.) Some years later a child was found to have a knife in the same school and a great fuss was made about it. Reports appeared on the radio and TV and the pupil was suspended. D

Bendy I know there are specialist places for kids that need help, but not enough to cover the whole of Harlow/Essex region . Lots of kids will miss out. The lad I was talking about now goes to a Harlow special school and is getting help there. The other kids with similar problems currently at school, I don't personally know the parents. There is little I can so or suggest, as I'm only a lunchtime assistant, and I often do voluntary help in the classrooms. There is a pupil confidentiality thing, so what I see and hear at school regarding an individual child, cannot be taken outside and discussed with others. That's why I dint refer to a child or situation by name, and why I cannot approach the parents to discuss the situation with them..Its the teachers job. So it would be wrong of me, if I find out who the child's parent/carer is, to approach them and suggest anything... I could get into trouble. Also may I add, that serious cases are statemented. Not sure what this means, but I know when they are, they receive more help. I also know some parents have to fight for this. Sadly some children are just under the borderline for this, and miss out on that help. Elaine x

Joyce Please don't lump all parents into the same bracket. To call a parent of a special needs child ineffective is terrible. I agree discipline starts at home, but the lad I mentioned has two sisters and a brother, and they are all polite, well adjusted individuals, and the parents a lovely polite couple. Special needs is a wide spectrum of problems in a child, which can range from deafness, to behavior problems. Years ago (in the dark ages) such children were just labelled as naughty. There was no other explanation. Kids and their parents suffered. Parents were accused of being bad parents. As for parents of such children getting benefits, It all depends if they are on low income, the same as parents of children without problems. My respect goes out to all parents of a special needs child. Its often for some very hard work Elaine x

My mum works at a unit here in Essex that deals with children who are not at school. They are either: Ill Pregnant Phobic Troublesome/excluded The majority of the kids she works with are 'troublesome' and most of their parents do not give a toss! Unfortunately there's not enough space in her unit and there are many children who just do not attend a school of any sort. It's easier to let them slip through the net than spend more money on trying to help and educate them. Sad but true. becx

I have to agree with Elaine i have 3 children on the special needs register, one for deafness which is waiting to be operated on, one for dyspraxia and one has general development delay/learning difficulties. This does not make me an ineffective parent. They are triplets and were born at 26wks and this is the reason for most of there problems. You can not blame all parents for children with behavioural problems, yes i agree you can some but dont blame all. Like Elaine i work voluntary in my childrens school so i do see what can occur. Star

Joyce, I quote what you wrote 'What puzzles me is the high incidence of 'special needs' Do you not think that a lot of these cases are the result of ineffective parents ??' You may not have said all....but even to say that some parents of special needs children are inafective parents may be upsetting annoying and frustrating to some. I do agree not all badly behaved children are 'special needs ' and with the right support to the teaching staff and the child, these children should be dealt with if the problem continues. Elaine x.