General Chat

We all believe in our own personal way, whether in a religion/atheist /agnostic, or what football team is the best, we live our lives accordingly. These are often formed in our childhood, learning from our parents & those around us, but some we learn the hard way when life kicks us in the teeth!
We all live our lives according to these beliefs, but should we try to force others to do the same?
None make us better individuals just because of these beliefs, by believing in something does not make it true or right.
It is everyone’s right to have freedom of speech, but is it right to ridicule those who do not have your belief’s?
If you do not share someone’s religion, does it give you the right to want to change that religion or condemn it?
Rather than trying to ‘get 1 up on someone’ or try to make them look small, perhaps we should all put ourselves in their place & try to understand the reasons behind their beliefs.
Whether you think I am stupid in thinking it or not, I believe that one day I will meet up with my Grandsons & other loved ones in that other room. (To think otherwise is too painful)
*Explanation of other room:
4th dimension (heaven) where our spirits live on after death of body

I take it this is aimed at me, so I will answer in some depth.

I will crawl over broken glass and hot coals to defend anyones right to believe anything they want. I will also crawl over the same hot coals to defend my right to challenge things that I see as being harmful to MY beliefs or way of life. And if anyone is so insecure in their faith or beliefs to dislike that - well, tough. Im not stopping anyone believing in anything from the tooth fairy to santa clause.

I have no problem with anyone poking fun at my atheism - go for it. I do have a problem with people telling me that belief systems should have some special status that means they cant be mocked, criticised or discussed in any way. Why is that the case? I'll tell you why. Because once you hold up any supernatural belief system to the light and examine it with the benefit of critical thinking, it falls flat on its face. It cant stand scrutiny, hence the no go area for religion. It cant stand up to examination - so it becomes a taboo subject. Not any more! This is the new age of enlightenment! But by all means believe and worship as you think fit, that right cannot and should not ever be taken away from you or anyone else.

So if you want to believe in heaven and hell and all that other stuff for which there is not the slightest shred of evidence, then go for it, knock yourself out and be happy and contented in your faith. Just dont tell me that it is wrong for me to laugh at it, joke about it or treat is as something that should be talked about in a hushed voice. Because it isn't.

I personally don't have any religion, and would never try to convince or interfere with what ever any one wants to think or believe or how some one wants to live their life

I live my life as i wish but believe in honesty, honor, sincerity, with morals compassion and an empathy with others and their situation,

As for what happens in death then it is my belief that there is no (4Th dimension ) and death is the end, I have been very close to death in the past on more than one occasion and death does not scare me, However if your belief is other wise then thats fine, but when my time comes i am prepared, and if their is another dimension then i will have a nice surprise when it comes

Roy

I don't ridicule anyone's religious beliefs, I do believe some of them are wrong though...as my mother who was brought up as a strict Catholic came to believe, that if a specific religion denies to some of it's followers the hope of an afterlife because they don't conform. I am not insecure in my faith ( over and above what is a natural questioning of something I can't see or 'prove) I am very secure in my belief that there is a God, and that God should not be levered into a mould set by any specific denomination.

I have no problem with anyone following their faith, whatever it may be from RC to Wicca, as long as it hurts no one else, excludes no one else in an unkind way, causes no harm to society as a whole but rather enhances it as a 'grace note' even for those who don't 'believe'.

I do believe in another place after this life, whatever one chooses to call it, but I trust and hope that I will see not only those of my family who followed one religion there but also the ones who followed none...and my animals!

Eldrick this thread is NOT about you or added to your thread as I respect your rights to your own beliefs.

By adding to this thread you are just confirming what I have learnt about you over the years ... you pick fun at everyone not caring about their feelings, you may think yourself well learned, but no-one on this earth knows everything.

I have lived with an atheist for over 40yrs we coexist very happily. He actually believes we are the offspring of extraterrestrials. lol

And you, my dear, have confirmed that you just resort to ad hominum when the discussion gets too difficult. I personally find it impertinent and bad mannered to claim to know someone when all the evidence you have is from a few posts on the internet, but it's common enough and I am pretty well used to it by now.

If it means anything to you, I care not one jot what you or anyone else thinks of me and if you dont like me poking fun at things, there is an easy answer. Ignore me and dont read my posts. Simples. End of story, everyone is happy :-D

You see, I see this over and over again. Someone states a point, someone else opposes it, and the second person is accused of ridiculing the original point. If you didn't want a debate, why put the thread up?

Opposition is not ridicule Carol, as well you know. I too will defend to the death your right to have your beliefs and to state them...equally I will also defend to the death Eldrick's right to his beliefs and to state them. It doesn't mean I agree with either of you, it doesn't mean I disagree with either of you. I just believe above all our freedom to have an opinion and to voice it without recrimination.

If it gets personal, with mud slinging and name calling then that's a different matter, I will not defend the person doing so.

Now, as for the original question, yes I do believe all people have the right to believe in what they want to believe in, but there is a big difference between faith and blind faith. It was even taught that we SHOULD question, we SHOULD challenge, we SHOULD want to understand more, both from the point of view of our own beliefs and from the point of view of others. Given that we should challenge and question the nature of our own beliefs, we should also be prepared to BE questioned and challenged.

By the way, I have fundamental Christian beliefs, but I do not attend any church because I do not agree with the church's doctrines, nor do I believe the modern church bears any resemblance to the original, due to corruption through the dark ages to the modern day.

Carol, whether you know things about Eldrick that we do not is neither here nor there and that remark is totally uncalled for. I am reporting that comment

carol regardless of disagreements on here i find it distastful you useing someones name when they go by an alais/boardname, please edit your post,

i also find your post a tad personal, :-(

so you are uncle E best friend are you Carol
you think you know or misleading people into thinking you know

well i know the man the real man
and all my family love him to bits

Oh here we go again. I'm not going to get into a discussion about private lives on here - I've been down that road in the past.

I did, however, learn a useful lesson. Trust absolutely no one off this site and stay totally detached from any semblance of friendship, as it WILL come back and bite you on the bum.

I would never have the bad manners to discuss anything said in any sort of private conversation, no matter how innocuous. But, as I say, lesson learnt and learnt well. Tell away, I dont care. Nor do I care about implying that there is something sinister that you know about. There isn't.

my deletion, I thought I'd pressed send and hadn't and the conversation has moved on
:-0

Getting out of hand now and agree with Stray and BC.

There should be rules on forums, particularly this one. Do not discuss religion, politics or the McCanns, and above all do NOT disagree with the OP regardless of your own views.

Sorry Rose, but I was incensed at such rudeness and betrayal with nasty undertones. I seldom bother reporting.

I answered Eldrick when he mentioned that I thought I knew him over a few posts on here ... I did NOT say I knew him, though when he was a member the first time we chatted a lot & that was what I knew him as, not Eldrick.


I was making a point to him ... but apologise if HE took it as a threat ... was not meant as one, as I said his business.

I do wish we could quote or even multiquote :)

However ...

"We all live our lives according to these beliefs, but should we try to force others to do the same?"
- No.

"It is everyone’s right to have freedom of speech, but is it right to ridicule those who do not have your belief’s?"
- No.

"If you do not share someone’s religion, does it give you the right to want to change that religion or condemn it?"
- No.

All my answers are IMHO (in my humble opinion).

I shall tactfully withdraw as the discourse has been well and truly diverted and the canons of civility breached.

Thank you for the kind words though!

Edit - final word - I have NEVER EVER ridiculed an individual. I have responded to attacks but NEVER once ever singled out an individual and ridiculed them. Never. I have, frequently, however, ridiculed, mocked and made fun of beliefs. There is a whole difference, a massive difference and anyone who can't grasp that difference is now better informed.

His business? Then why mention it Carol?

Anyway, I feel like I've been suckered into a thread that has an underlying motive, so I'll move on.

If I remember correctly, this subject was discussed some years ago, with the same result, perhaps its time to knock it on the head and let the thread die.**M**.