General Chat

My daughter was on her way to collect her small daughter from school about 6 months ago, when she was stopped by police. their in car computer said she wasnt insured. She told them she was, she pays by monthly direct debit. Unbeknown to her her ins comp had made a mistake, their fault, and she wasnt covered even though her payments had been taken. they are based in india, but its a well known english company. They impounded her car, didnt even give her a piece of paper to produce documents etc nor even take her name. She contacted her ins, it was sorted and the day after she collected her car. She showed police proof she was covered and that it was ins companys fault. End of story, until today. She recieved a letter from DVLA to say because she has been driving less than 2 yrs, they have given her full penalty points and as from midnight tonight she can no longer drive untill she takes her test again. She is a community nurse and needs her car for her job.
She hasnt even had the chance to go to court to explain what happened. So when she finishes work today she will have to phone a solicitor to see what can be done. Isnt this a ridiculous state of affairs.

I find it hard to believe that the police would single her out to do a random PNC check and stop her, without there being another reason.

For her to get points, she would have to send her licence to the local court after being given a fixed penalty notice. Up till when I retired, no insurance wasn't a fixed penalty offence, it was a summons only.

I suspect, then, that there was another offence involved somewhere along the line and you may not be in possession of the full facts, even though it is your daughter.

Edit:

Just checked, no insurance still isnt dealt with by a fixed penalty. If she has points on her licence, she must have been prosecuted for another offence in the interim period. This must have been by means of a fixed penalty or a court appearance. The DVLC can't just send you a letter out of the blue to say you have points all f a sudden, and in any case there is a 6 month statutory limitation on proceedings in summary offences.

The DVLA can't take that decision, it has to be the court.

No insurance is six point plus £200 fine.

I had a similar situation in that a credit card payment hadn't been taken to renew my bike insurance and I got stopped on a random check four months later.

I obtained a letter from my insurance company to confirm that it was an administrative error and that they would have covered me if a claim had been made, sent that to the prosecutor's office asking if they still wished to pursue the case.
They declined to prosecute so got my licence back unendorsed.

Yes it was a random check..

If that was her only offence it sounds as if the police haven't passed the info that they have seen proof of insurance on to the DVLA.
I suggest she gets in touch with the police station where she got the original accusation sorted and ask them to fax the DVLA with the information.

I know the advice is all well meaning, but I repeat - you cannot get points on your licence unless you have been served with either a summons, appeared at court, been convicted and sentenced - or been given an endorseable fixed penalty notice which has been paid.

As no insurance is not a fixed penalty offence, then there is something you don't know going on here.

Over the years, I've heard this 'random check' thing over and over again. In 32 years, I never once did a random check. I dont know anyone else who did, either. There was always a reason for me to stop someone, without exception. Always. Be it a faulty light, a vehicle defecty, manner of driving, whatever. Always a reason. And no one I knew, me included, ever sat doing computer checks at random. There was always other things to do, given that you have to give a reason and location for each and every vehicle you check.

But, thats just me and many years experience talking :-)

Apologies Eldric you are right: There must have been a summons involved somewhere for it have got to the DVLA.

However, I assure you that in London they DO do mass random checks, particularly of motorbikes, but also vans.
Now frequent ANPR trawls by mobile vans.
Plus the DVLA ones to check of VED on all vehicles, although these seem to have decreased with the advent of ANPR.
In the 15 years I have been doing the suicide run I have been pulled over at least three times.

aahh, ANPR is a bit different to sitting in a car doing random pnc checks on passing motorists, though!

Having said that, there is a whole new growth industry surrounding ANPR, time elapsed speed calculation and other similar big brother intrusions into our daily lives :-(

Thank you for your advice, I will take a look at letter they sent her.
I will let you know the outcome,as you have both taken the trouble to advise me.

I was randomed checked .....
I got a new car 2 years old ...Police stopped me coz the owner before me had a conviction .....
They followed me for about a mile then I pulled over and they questioned me and told me to take paperwork to station ........

But I think your daughter needs advice from somewhere ........

This site has some useful faqs re driving whilst uninsured.

http://www.drivingban.co.uk/drivingban/drivingwithoutinsurance.htm

Interesting to see that even if there has been an administrative error, then you are still guilty of an offence, but the circumstances may amount to mitigation.

Heres an update. My daughter has just spent an hour on the phone to the ins company, who keep promising to send her printed evidence of phone conversations between them and proof that it was their fault she wasnt covered for 4 days.
I have read her letter from the DVLA , it said she had recieved the penalty points under the1995 new drivers act, for not being insured,and that she has to send her licence back to them, and can apply for a prov licence.
My daughter also told me that the police man who stopped her told her that he had heard of lots of people having probs with norwich union ins and that they once stopped an elderly man in a brand new car for having no ins.It turned out to be that ins comp fault yet again.
So next she phoned a solicitor who told hershe should have had a summons for it to get this far,as she hasnt he said it will have to be suspended and the case re-openened. He also said not to worry he will get it sorted. She feels some relief now . She as gone back to work now after trying to speak to DVLA on solicitors advice, but no answer. She will try again later.. This is her job at risk here and all because of an ins company unable to do its job properly and admit to its mistakes and rectify them ,as i said before she is a district nurse and cannot work without her car.

Good well at least its looking better now and she has involved all the right people to get to the bottom of this problem ...

Good luck

Up date. the court sent summons to wrong address. typical.

Dvla have a lot to answer for!
Will put up a thread later, have been waiting for further action so I could explain more fully.

If I were your daughter I would get on to my mp quicksmart and let him intervene too.

I will be doing that as soon as things progress a little further.

Lizx

Daughter spoke to DVLA . CANT carry on driving till it goes to court. Her solicitor said DVLA could reinstate her licence, IF THEY WANTED TO. THE B.....S.chose not to. So now she cant work. Through no fault of her own. makes you sick doesnt it.

Looking forward to new thread PSD.X

In my opinion she needs to get in touch with the court, provide the written proof that there is no case to answer and insist that they drop the case with immediate effect.

And it was NU's appointed agent, Carole Nash, that I had my problem with, though NU themselves were very good about getting the letter of indemnity out promptly.

That is typical and ridiculous. They seem to like to play god in their offices.
Still think she should speak to mp - he would know how valuable her work is and that she needs to drive.
Maybe get on to the local papers too and slag off N.Union, soon to be known as Aviva only!
Will write my thread later, have to do some calls now.
Bye
Lizx

The only proof she has regarding the ins , is her bank statements which prove all payments paid. she as been reduced to tears of frustration whilst on the phone to Norwich union today. All she is ever put onto is a call centre in India, every time she speaks to them, which has been about 20 times over last 5 months, they all say different things and all promise to post the evidence, but never do. Thats when she can understand what they are saying, Her solicitor who she is seeing tomorrow is going to write to them,its the only option left. Its an absolute disgrace. She is a good law abiding working person. Its just typical of the injustice deccent people of this rottern country are subjected to at the moment.