General Chat

Hi Dave,I agree totally Ann and Joyous, we are a Christian country.Yes other religions are present, respected and part of our diversity.

But ultimately we are a Church of England country.

Caz x

thanks for the support Caz - I didn't think I was alone in my thinking. I have actually visited a Muslim temple here in Cardiff after asking questions about the religion through my local newspaper. An Imam from a local temple invited my friend and I to visit and I must say it was a very enlightening and enjoyable afternoon and I couldn't help being struck by the numerous similarities between Christianity and Islam. Quite a surprise

There are numerous similarities between Judaism, Christianity and Islam - they are all based on the Book of Abraham. Abraham is the one constant in all 3 religions.
Judaism came first, from Judaism came Chrtistianity, which encompasses both religions (Old Testament and New Testament)
Islam came from Christianity. Much of the Qu'ran is based on the Bible. Christmas is mentioned in the Qu'ran, as is Jesus, as, like Mohammed, Jesus is acknowledged as a prophet of God.
Believe it or not it is in The bible - not the Qu'ran where people are told to dress modestly. Of course how 'modestly' is interpreted is up to the religious leaders!!

Shariah law is already in use within the Moslem community in this country, but isn't the best place for a Moslem woman to turn to if there are marital problems.
Jewish religious law is also in use - if a Jewish woman obtains a civil divorce from her husband - under Jewish religious law she is still married to her husband - rather like Roman Catholicism.

My argument against the Archbishops speech is that like Christianity, there are many facets of Islam. Shariah law isn't the only Islamic law to follow, like Papal Bulls of the Catholic church aren't the only religious laws for Christians to follow.
We either take all the different aspects of Islamic law or none at all.

Personally, I feel people have come to live in Britain. and should either accept 'our' ways or go away.
In Nigeira, Moslems there are telling Christians if they don't like Shariah law they should leave!!

Problem with the 'powers that be' in this country is they don't know enough about anything, particularly Islam, and are frightened of coming across as not 'PC', hence they open their mouths before engaging brain and come out with some idiotic soft-soaping crap.

BTW my dad was a convert to Islam. He didn't follow Shariah Law - he lived by the Qu'ran, which in it's original form is a very gentle and peace loving book. Because he didn't follow any 'sect' ie neither Sunni nor Shi'a, he taught Religious studies in Saudi Arabia.
One thing he did say was, that Islam is very sexist!!

maggie

Hello again, Ann:) We'll have to agree to differ - I would think that the majority of British Muslims are from immigrant families so you could say that the religion was brought in. But then so was Christianity and I don't personally feel that GB is an especially Christian nation now.

Our country has always had waves of immigrants and each wave has changed to some degree the nature of our country. If people are living in this country and paying taxes, whether they are first generation or 100th I believe they rightfully have a say in the way the country is run. Live and let live and all that.

The trouble is Uggers is that the illegal ones arent paying taxes, whatever religion they may be and as has been proved , child benefit is being sent from us tax payers back to their countries....wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!

Caz x

I would dispute the fact that GB is a christian country in as much as most people here are not practicing christians. It seems to be, if you haven't got a religion, or aren't particularly bothered, you tick CofE by default.

I 100% believe our law needs to stay secular. As it is. Not Christian, not shariah, but British Law.

If people come to live here, they need to embrace our culture and abide by our laws - that DOESN't mean be Christian.

And before anyone asks I was born and bred here in Plymouth/Cornwall. I'm not Christian, but no I'm not aetheist as I follow a religion, just not that of Christ.

Laura

PS - Ann we do teach Islam in schools. Along with Judaism, Sikhism, Ba;'hai, Buddhism and many others.

Each local education authority has what is known as a SACRE, a panel of representatives of teachers, union members, authority members and reps from different religions who decide what is taught in our schools. RE is not on the national curriculum, but is an obligatory subject, hence each authority has its own panel.

I agree laura,

I m C ofE but no matter, i think the church can be hypocritcal but i agree with you on the laws of he land,

caz xxx

Laura, I agree about laws staying secular. But, for example, allowing Muslim marriages without a civil ceremony would not be bringing religion into the law but just recognising it's legality and giving it the same status as any other religious marriage with legal status.

Britain is a secular country and as such, religious laws are nothing to do with the judicial system - and long may it be!!

I fail to see why on the whim of one section of society we should change the ways of centuries.

maggie

But Uggers, the same could be said about pagan handfastings - legal in Scotland but not in England.

I don't have a problem recognising Muslim marriages without separate civil ceremonies, but then one has to be completely balanced and allow that for all religions.

I totally agree, Laura. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone, I can't see why any form of marriages can't be legally recognised.

I agree with any form of marriage being recognised uggers, but this is about the fact our country is being neutralized to the point of oblivion!!


caz x

The problem is, every small aspect would have to be dealt with bit by bit. Eg/ I don't see anyone having a problem with the marriages, but what about other aspects of law?

Rowan Williams has been favourable to many other religions, a very tolerant archbishop with respect for other beliefs, whether he actually said what he's reported to have I'm not sure, the press normally blow these things completely out of proportion, but I do wonder how much is just to be seen as 'PC'...

I think the teaching of RE may possibly be a little bit influenced by whether or not it is a faith-orientated school. At my primary and seconday school (between 1989 and 2001) when we did RE we did not look at other faiths but primarily at the Catholic side of things (although we did look into other branches of Christianity).

The difficulty I found later in life - at university - was that in my last two years I shared a flat with four Hindu girls. Three of them I got on reasonably well with but the fourth really took a dislike to me.

Having only ever studied Christianity, I didn't know much about their faith but this girl seemed to think I was purposely insulting her faith/background by having raw meat in the fridge. If I left it uncovered, I got left notes - she never took the time to find out that I didn't do it on purpose, just assumed that I was doing it to offend her beliefs.

But other schools - obviously - do cover various other major world religions in RE. At my school, we had to do RE to GCSE level and there was no option to do another syllabus. Ours was basically structured around the Catholic faith and other variants on Christianity.

The deleted post below is mine - I posted this one twice.

I was talking about state schools. Obviously faith schools will be different. Even CofE schools that are VA (voluntary aided) may be slightly different in their teaching of RE, but generally schools get their RE syllabus decided by a SACRE.

Interestingly, in France, RE doesn't get taught at all at school - the education system is secular (as in America) and religion is something private, for home.

And then we could get a debate/thread started on faith schools! A whole other can of worms

I'm a bit late coming back on this - been out!!! - Laura - I'm aware that other religions are taught in our schools NOW but that is fairly recent - certainly wasn't taught in schools when I or my son were in school.

As far as I know, aspects of Sharia law have been practised in this country, albeit informally, for quite some time. I can't say that this has affected me personally, any more than have rulings from the Beth Din.

Hi Ann, I realise that. Sorry - wasn't meaning to pick you up on anything, figured you maybe meant earlier on, just thought I'd post what it is like now.

How old's your son just out of interest?