General Chat

Mind you , I heard this week that a Jewish legal system (I've forgotten the name of it) has been running in this country alongside our own legal system for hundreds of years? Maybe it can work.... guess it depends on what and where, as always.

Neither do I Viv, scary thought....btw I'm thinking Christian religion

Personally I don't think that the Law and Religion mix can you imagine what the Law in this country would be like if Religion (Christian, Muslim or anything else) had too much say we would be in the Dark Ages turning back the clock 100's of years. I for one would not want to live in any country run by religion.

viv

that's mudered that one stone dead again then!!

I met many Muslims with my job - medical secretary - all very nice people - one in particular Prince Abdulrahman Al Wehebi no less [I told him I knew one day my prince would come] was a really nice guy, a Saudi psychiatrist who absolutely loved it over here and came regularly as he was a big friend of our Prof - a neuropsychiatrist. Sadly, my Prince seemed to disappear off the face of the earth and Prof felt that he had perhaps been rather outspoken about life in Saudi and that's why we never hear from him now. He rang me up from Saudi one NYE to wish me Happy New Year and bought me lots of little presents - when he left last time we collected and bought him a Welsh rugby shirt - the largest size they had and tried to picture him wearing it as he rode his camel in the desert carrying a Kalashnikov - which he did all the time apparently.

Charlie B/ Bernard, considering you were accusing others of small-mindedness this morning don't you think it's a tad small-minded to tar all Muslims with the same brush? How many do you know well?

So Charlie, do you think this way of all religions or just muslims? I'd be interested to know.

I'm sorry if I have reacted strongly, but I really think your comment is very sweeping...

In many countries if you didnt like the laws it wouldn't be your choice to come home again, you'd be sent home.

I have lived in various countries of the Middle East for many years, almost 3 of which were spent in Saudi Arabia.
I didn't particularly agree with many of their laws, couldn't see sense/reason in some of them, which makes them all the more hard to swallow. However, I am a firm believer of the 'when in Rome' rule.

As for your comment Dave, ref: the American woman in Starbucks who was sitting with men....well, a woman cannot sit with a man/men unless he's husband, or a part of your immediate family, ie father, brother, uncle, son. It's a long drawn out explanation, but unmarried males and females do not mix. The woman should have gone to the Female Only of Family Only section and I'm really surprised that nobody told her this....it's very difficult to actually get away with sitting where you're not supposed to .
Just imagine a woman going into a male public toilets in the UK, someone would say something pretty sharpish, wouldn't they!!

Several times I have been refused a coffee in Starbucks/other coffee shops, either because I was alone or because I was with another female. The point being that in both cases I was without a Mattram (male-minder - ie my husband, father, brother or son). The rules sound complicated, but in fact are not. IF there is a 'Female Section' or adequate 'Family Section' then I was likely to be served, and hardly ever refused. It's not Starbucks who make the rules, these are the rulings of the Religious & Moral Police.
Sometimes I was out in public without my head covered, and I would be told off by the Religous & Moral Police. Or maybe they considered that I had too much make-up on....and so on!! It's hard to swallow but the consequences are not worth the hassle, you learn to bite your tongue.
I could list so many incidents, reasonable and unreasonable (in my estimation) but the point is, that is their law and that is their country.

I had two choices, abide by it, or have my Resident's visa cancelled.

I can't even BEGIN to explain how the PC Barmy Brigade and soft-touch pussy-footing of UK makes my blood boil.
However, I don't believe the Archbishop meant that Sharia law would be brought in instead of our laws, rather that some aspects of Sharia Law would be integrated into our law for the purpose of Muslims living here, whether they were born here or not.

As an ex-pat living in the Middle East - IF such an occasion arose that I was arrested and faced court hearing or trial, I sure as heck would wish that it wasn't through a Sharia court, but that they would take into consideration my nationality and integrate some kind of 'western' thinking law.....and when I think of how easy I could break the law out here - unknowingly in so many cases - I can't help thinking that I see the sense in what the Archbishop was trying to say, albeit in a clumsy way.

K

Good point Fiona.

As for if I was living in Saudi, I wouldn't be. But also - if I was in another country I would expect to have to know their language (or at least some of it) and follow their laws. If I didn't like them to that extent, I'd come home again.

Has anyone actually read, or heard, the Archbishop's speech in it's entirety. I know I haven't - nor, I suspect have most of the reporters who have been giving us their opinions all week.

i havent digested all this thread but if the boot were on the other foot.......for example, a white expat, person in saudi nicks a loaf of bread , gets caught and the punishment is a hand amputated. thats LOCAL law..
tell me, would he not prefer for the punishment to be ex pat law( law back home). wear a tag for a week and a slap on the wrist from a lily livered magistrate?

Bob

I'm not used to general - can't believe how quickly the threads move!!!!!!!

Hi Ann, I realise that. Sorry - wasn't meaning to pick you up on anything, figured you maybe meant earlier on, just thought I'd post what it is like now.

How old's your son just out of interest?

As far as I know, aspects of Sharia law have been practised in this country, albeit informally, for quite some time. I can't say that this has affected me personally, any more than have rulings from the Beth Din.

I'm a bit late coming back on this - been out!!! - Laura - I'm aware that other religions are taught in our schools NOW but that is fairly recent - certainly wasn't taught in schools when I or my son were in school.

And then we could get a debate/thread started on faith schools! A whole other can of worms

I was talking about state schools. Obviously faith schools will be different. Even CofE schools that are VA (voluntary aided) may be slightly different in their teaching of RE, but generally schools get their RE syllabus decided by a SACRE.

Interestingly, in France, RE doesn't get taught at all at school - the education system is secular (as in America) and religion is something private, for home.

I think the teaching of RE may possibly be a little bit influenced by whether or not it is a faith-orientated school. At my primary and seconday school (between 1989 and 2001) when we did RE we did not look at other faiths but primarily at the Catholic side of things (although we did look into other branches of Christianity).

The difficulty I found later in life - at university - was that in my last two years I shared a flat with four Hindu girls. Three of them I got on reasonably well with but the fourth really took a dislike to me.

Having only ever studied Christianity, I didn't know much about their faith but this girl seemed to think I was purposely insulting her faith/background by having raw meat in the fridge. If I left it uncovered, I got left notes - she never took the time to find out that I didn't do it on purpose, just assumed that I was doing it to offend her beliefs.

But other schools - obviously - do cover various other major world religions in RE. At my school, we had to do RE to GCSE level and there was no option to do another syllabus. Ours was basically structured around the Catholic faith and other variants on Christianity.

The deleted post below is mine - I posted this one twice.

The problem is, every small aspect would have to be dealt with bit by bit. Eg/ I don't see anyone having a problem with the marriages, but what about other aspects of law?

Rowan Williams has been favourable to many other religions, a very tolerant archbishop with respect for other beliefs, whether he actually said what he's reported to have I'm not sure, the press normally blow these things completely out of proportion, but I do wonder how much is just to be seen as 'PC'...

I agree with any form of marriage being recognised uggers, but this is about the fact our country is being neutralized to the point of oblivion!!


caz x