Genealogy Chat

Iam looking for help finding a family from 1939 Register if anyone can help.

from 1921 census John Clarke age 33yrs 1 month b1888 Dublin, living with his wife Minnie Sarah aged 36yrs b London in the Peacock Tavern 24 Holland St Southwark he is listed as the manager.

I know they married in Southwark and he dies in same area in 1949, daughter May Lavinia b 1927. her record may be redacted as only 12yrs.

Married as John Clarke, 1921 census John Clarke death in 1949 John J.A, Clarke

Thank you

Posting 1921 just for our reference:

John Clarke
in the 1921 England Census
Name John Clarke
Gender Male
Nationality British
Marital Status Married
Age 33 Years 1 Month
Relation to Head Niece's husband
Estimated Birth Year 1888
Birth Place Dublin, Dublin, Ireland
Residence Date 1921
Residence Street Address 24 Holland St, Southwark, Se1
Residence Place St Saviour Southwark, London, Surrey, England
Occupation Manager
Occupation Code 914/7
Employer Code 775
Place of Work Peacock, 24 Holland Street Se
Number of Children Under 16 0
Inhabited Y
Ward St Saviour
Parliamentary Division Southwark Pb, North Div.
Registration District Southwark
Registration District Number 23
Sub registration district Christchurch & St Saviour
Sub Registration District Number 1
Respondent Mrs Rix
Enumeration District Name Southwark Mb
Enumeration District 5
Schedule 125
Schedule Type Code E
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Eliza Ann Rix 58 Years 2 Months Head
Minnie Sarah Clarke 36 Years 4 Months Niece
John Clarke 33 Years 1 Month Niece's husband
Alvin Edward Basford 4 Years 4 Months Grandson
[plus three visitors ]


Births Jun 1927 (>99%)
Clarke May L Ford Lambeth 1d 503

For info

Deaths Mar 1949 (>99%)
Clarke John J A 61 Camberwell 5c 242


Deaths Sep 1944 (>99%)
Clarke Minnie S 60 Camberwell 1d 463

Can't see any sign in 1939 - perhaps they were in Ireland??

The daughter is in a tree on Ancestry......no record there of 1939, so info seems not to be available

Her marriage

Marriages Sep 1957 (>99%)
CLARKE May L KNIGHT Battersea 5c 63
KNIGHT George A C CLARKE Battersea 5c 63

From the Ancestry tree............

May Lavinia Clarke
Birth 28 APR 1927 • Battersea, London, London, England
Death 27 MAR 2017 • Bromley, Kent, England

Thank you all for your search, i thought maybe extra eyes could find them.

24 Holland Street does not appear on 1939 Register

I don't see them in 1939. Perhaps they were in Ireland?

EDIT: Oops! Snap, ErikaH!

:-D :-D :-D

On 1927 ER, they were at 114 Ferndale Road, Brixton

Thank you ErikaH

ErikaH

Using the ER register found them in Ducie Street Brixton (near Ferndale address) thank you now found John Clarke needed dob to search Iris Births.

According to a tree on Ancestry his full name was John Joseph Aloysius

You don’t need DoB to search Irish births…….just a year +/- 1 or 2

No sign of his birth on irishgenealogy.ie - at least not in the Dublin area.


1939 for our interest/reference:

John Clarke
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name John Clarke
Gender Male
Marital Status Married
Birth Date 24 May 1888
Residence Date 1939
Address 2 Ducie Street
Residence Place Lambeth, London, England
Occupation Sprinkler Erector Heavy Wo??
Line Number 37
Schedule Number 17
Sub Schedule Number 1
Enumeration District Anll
Borough Lambeth
Registration District 22/4
Household Members (Name) Gender Birth Year
John Clarke Male 1888


Minnie and May must be somewhere else - they're not with John on the 1939 Register, though Minnie is listed at that address on the ER.

Minnie with a closed record in 1939.
The closed record has a first name involving a tail below the line - presumably the Y in May.

Minnie S Clarke
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name Minnie S Clarke
Gender Female
Marital Status Married
Birth Date 5 Feb 1885
Residence Date 1939
Address Holly Bank
Residence Place Horsham, Sussex, England
Occupation Unpaid Domestic Duties
Line Number 26
Schedule Number 6
Sub Schedule Number 4
Enumeration District Engg
Borough Horsham
Registration District 81/2
Household Members (Name) Gender Birth Year
Frederick G Mercer Male 1880
Florence E Mercer Female 1878
Arthur J Mercer Male 1881
Minnie S Clarke Female 1885
This record is officially closed.


DOB would fit with her birth registration in 1st qr of 1885.

FORD, MINNIE SARAH mmn RIX
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in HOLBORN Volume 01B Page 724


ADDED:
Florence Mercer (nee Jones) is Minnie's cousin

[ Well, I thought she was - but see my next post ]:

JONES, FLORENCE ELIZABETH mmn FORD
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in BRENTFORD Volume 03A Page 111


Florence's parents (her marriage record gives father's name Charles):

Marriages Dec 1876 (>99%)
Ford Elizabeth Brentford 3a 118
Jones Charles Brentford 3a 118


In 1911 Minnie is at The Peacock with her aunt, as in 1921.

1891:

Charles Ford
in the 1891 England Census
Name Charles Ford
Gender Male
Age 35
Relationship Head
Birth Year 1856
Spouse
Mary Ann Ford
Child
Minnie L Ford
Charles W Ford
Birth Place Langley, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil parish Liberty of Saffron Hill
Residence Place London, Liberty of Saffron Hill, London, England
Registration District Holborn
Sub registration district Saffron Hill
ED, Institution or Vessel 3
Neighbors
Piece 221
Folio 62
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Charles Ford 35 Head
Mary Ann Ford 35 Wife
Minnie L Ford 6 Daughter <<<<<<<<<<<<
Charles W Ford 2 Son


Marriages Sep 1883 (>99%)
FORD Charles Eton 3a 775
RIX Mary Ann Eton 3a 775


Charles with his sister Elizabeth, the future Mrs Jones:

[ EDIT: NO! See my next post. ]

Charles Ford
in the 1861 England Census
Name Charles Ford
Gender Male
Age 4
Relation Son
Estimated Birth Year 1857
Father's Name William Ford
Mother's Name Jonah Ford
Where born Langley, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil parish Langley Marish
County/Island Buckinghamshire
Country England
Registration District Eton
Sub-registration district Iver
ED, institution, or vessel 11d
Neighbors
Household schedule number 108
Piece 851
Folio 84
Page number 20
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
William Ford 46 Head
Jonah Ford 46 Wife
Martha Ford 19 Daughter
Henry Ford 16 Son
Sarah M Ford 12 Daughter
Elizabeth Ford 10 Daughter <<<<<<<<<<
Thomas Ford 8 Son
Charles Ford 4 Son

ArgyllGran

thank you

I found this just now also, googled searched Horsham and this place in Sept 1939 was initially chosen as a reception area for evacuees from London, 3000 children by train from 1st Sept 1939. Agree this will be them,

I find that for some reason many of the 1939 dob are out by 1yr, I think i found John in Dublin registed 27th May 1887 only child born in the May.

Maureen -
Note the addition to my post above, showing that Florence Mercer was Minnie's cousin.

ADDED:

BUT NO! Bother! It was a good theory!

It looks as if Minnie's father Charles's sister may not be the right Elizabeth.
She was born in Langley, Bucks and her family was there - so why marry in Brixton?

Sadly, I think this is Charles's sister:

Elisabeth Ford
in the 1871 England Census
Name Elisabeth Ford
Age 22
Estimated Birth Year 1849
Gender Female
Where born Iver Heath, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil parish Hayes Norwood
Ecclesiastical parish Hayes
County/Island Middlesex
Country England
Registration District Uxbridge
Sub-registration district Hayes
ED, institution, or vessel The Hanwell Lunatic Asylum
Household schedule number 1
Piece 1311
Folio 116
Page number 8


???
Elizabeth Ford
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name Elizabeth Ford
Age 57
Estimated Birth Year abt 1851 [abt 1851]
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Death Registration Place Uxbridge, Middlesex, United Kingdom
Death Date Jun 1908
Inferred Death Place Middlesex, United Kingdom
Volume 3a
Page 17

Re Johns birth -
that can only be his birth in May 1887 if his middle names Joseph Aloysius were added after registration - perhaps at baptism.

I can't find any John Clark(e) birth registered with those middle names.

You need his marriage cert to check his father's name.

Why don’t you get in touch with the person on Ancestry who has him in his/her tree?

The additional forenames could be an affectation, as he didn’t use them when he married

Minnie’s MMN was Rix…….confirming the link shown on 1921 census

ErikaH

Thank you i will do.