General Chat

Every now and then, usually not within a normal lifespan, an idea is formed that turns the world on its head. In more recent times, there were Newton, Darwin, then Einstein, Crick, Hoyle and Hawkins but possibly Darwin and Einstein made the most impact on our senses and beliefs. My feeling is that something more wonderful and mysterious lies ahead. The field of exploration will be quantum mechanics, the study of the infinitesimally small.
Space-time is not something from science fiction but the here and now. Its governing force is that weakest of force-fields, gravity In fact, in physics, space-time and gravity mean the same thing and it permeates the whole of the cosmos. Shut down gravity and the universe disappears. Electro-magnetism is also a force-field but, together with time is a part of gravity. There’s no point in trying to figure out the meaning of these terms as even scientists cannot yet do this or substantiate them mathematically. Just one of those things; you know damn well it is there but cannot prove it mathematically - yet.
Gravity can, though, provide us with a local sense of dimensional space to which most of us grab onto, denying anything outside our own personal experiences. We hang on grimly to our walls, floors and clocks and except, perhaps after imbibing too rashly, can tell which way up we are, even with our eyes shut. Some of us admit to sensing “something great” out there whilst others feel safer by shutting their minds to it.

We have found out there in the void (and here on earth), an energy called electromagnetism which comes in many and varied forms. It acts as an invisible force marshalling and moving matter. Electromagnetism is an energy requiring neither matter, time nor dimensions to support it. Physicists have failed, so far, to find any unity among the different fields and particles that skein throughout space-time but it appears to be connected, in a very subtle form, with consciousness and the power of the mind to affect animate or inanimate objects.
In this universe of ours, there’s a tantalising prospect of finding unification of all space-time theories. In the meantime, since the 1940s, astronomers, astrophysicists, mathematicians, thousand upon thousands of them, have continued the task of understanding the cosmos, using a variety of techniques. By the 1980s vast skeins and voids have emerged in intricate mathematical patterns but there are still vast regions beyond, full of billions upon billions of galaxies each full of billions of stars where laws of physics may differ from our own. The vastness and intricacies of the voidare incomprehensible Nothing in our collective knowledge can prepare us for what may be found in this cosmic abyss.
The cosmos is controlled by vast reservoirs of “dark matter” and mysterious energies unknown to science. It is said that “dark matter”, a specialised form of energy that has the attributes of mass and extension in space and time, comprises 96% of what is out there. Eternity of time and infinity of space are concepts that the intellect can’t fully grasp - except, perhaps, that the void is not empty as a vacuum.

Fully understand what you are telling us all Len.

Lovely to see you around. Wishing you and Mary well.

Jenny xx (Mommylonglegs)

These mysterious energies that remain unseen and unknown in the 21st century first began to emerge in 50 or 60 years ago. Since the 1940s, astronomers, astrophysicists and mathematicians have, bit by bit, winkled themselves into a much bigger and more complex universe than was ever imagined, even in the realms of science fiction. Only recently has the concept of “other dimensions” (let’s not call it the paranormal – yet) been explored. The world about us seemed quite adequate and normal with three dimensions but the logical progression of research seems to lead to others.
Although the mathematics of space dealt with abstractions, discoveries made by George Riemann and others make it irresistible to think that our worldly, physical space may be just as weird, complicated and wonderful as demonstrated by Einstein in his “General Theory”. We cannot have the slightest conception of what space out there in the cosmos is about. Many, therefore, shun it. “We cannot comprehend, therefore it cannot exist”.
There is, though, a deeper mystery to the void first hinted at by Minowski, Albert Einstein’s tutor. Space and time form a continuous mathematical entity which encompasses dimensions at present unknown to humanity but which is gradually being revealed.
Our brains have been tuned for the left hemispheres to do all the conscious thinking and organising for us. But our right hemisphere (in some) is probably more adept at visualising and making intuitive sense of the whole picture. This has been so since pre-history, even to the authors of Genesis.
In most primitive “Creation” stories we have dark primordial oceans with hidden forms waiting for the spirit of God to sweep away the darkness and bring life. No one knew where this spirit or intelligence came from but it was always visualised as a vast, all-knowing intelligence. The Old Ones may have been on to the truth, intuitionally. Scientific insight is now bringing the “Creation” stories back but with words so new (e.g. “distant intentionality” and “precognition” etc) as to not yet being part of everyday language.
We are entering into new methods of gaining knowledge of our universe. Eventually all things will be translated into common terms. But with such information that consciousness (spirit/soul) is not a brain function but may exist outside the body, we are once again moving in the direction of ancient wisdom. The miracle of the new theories now emerging from universities and research establishments is such that it fits in with the rough outlines of the old stories.
There seems to be a guiding hand at work; a supreme intelligence from which our consciousness is drawn.

oh len i have so many questions,i could be here all nite.xxx

In 1997 Professor Saul Perlmutter opened another can of worms. While looking at the expansion of the universe, he accidentally discovered that not only were all stars and galaxies moving away from each other, they were doing so at greater and greater speeds.
This meant that our future selves might one day look up to a sky without stars (they'd all be too far away). It also meant that 'something' was pushing the stars apart. This anti-gravity force was completely new to science, but again what it actually was remained a mystery. It did however have a name: dark energy.
It turned out that the universe is 4% ordinary matter, 21% dark matter and 75% dark energy. That's a lot of stuff that no one understands.
Every civilisation since the year had its own cosmological model. Every few decades or centuries, it has been replaced by something better.
Whether we are the privileged generation living in the time of the right idea remains to be seen. Is dark matter here to stay?
It is a fact that quantum mechanics tells us that the world we inhabit depends for its meaning and reality on our perception of it.
Let’s seriously consider any solid object, perhaps the chair on which you are sitting, and think of it afresh.
Firstly, using stored knowledge, we can examine the chair with our normal senses, sight touch and smell and maybe tap it, bringing in our hearing. We may deduce that it is made of wood and not metal, plastic or some other substance. We may go on to deduce the existence of a tree and, subsequently, soil, water, sunlight and air so necessary for the production of wood. But then think of the transmutation of all these forms of matter and energy into a living tree.
But don’t stop there; it is composed of cells and molecules. A molecule is the smallest unit of a compound that can take part in a chemical reaction and is made up of a group of atoms electrically bonded together. An atom has a tiny nucleus surrounded by electrons whizzing round it as the earth and planets whiz round the sun. None of these components, from the atom downwards is touching. Indeed, relative to their size, the spaces are astronomical. To illustrate this, if the electrons and protons circling the neutron ( the nucleus) at set distances made the shape of a football, the nucleus (which as we all know can be split into smaller components) could be compared to a grain of sand in the centre.
Had it been a metal or plastic chair we would still have arrived at molecules, albeit of a different sort – but let’s not digress.
So how about your chair or any other “solid” object? It’s quite ghostly, in fact, if you zoom in close enough. We are just used to perceiving it as hard and solid. Since the advent of quantum mechanics, over the last few decades, the physical world has lost its old solidity and permanence, certainly as observed by most physicists.

Hello Jenny, hello Christine. Glad to find you still here. I do not recognise many of today's contributors. frankly, I do not like the "new look" of GR and find it more difficult to navigate around.
I decided to allow my membership to lapse when it was due for renewal earlier in the year - but GR had retained my credit card number and renewed for me. As it's not expensive I let it go on.

Joyous Joy. PM me if you would like further information on any point.
Len

Len,

So great to see you posting again...even if I am not on the same plain as you are...Mine being down ther somewhere...... echo...echo..ooo...

Hope Mary is well!

Lindy in the very humid Algarve

Long ago in lecture halls and books I discovered physics; more advanced and mind-blowing than I had done in A levels at grammar school. I learned about relativity and cosmology and wished I had done tensor calculus at school, rather than trigonometry (about which I now retain nothing) and been more dedicated to my studies.
I read that when Albert Einstein first published his paper on relativity, just about 100 years ago, the number of scientists who understood it could be counted on the fingers. But it was the building blocks of nuclear physics.
His equation was E=mc². Not much to look at but mind shattering. E is the energy equivalent of mass (m) and c is the speed of light. Light is the form of electromagnetic radiation that makes things visible to us and travels at 186,281 miles a second in tiny packets (quanta) of photons (particles). Squared, the size of the figure (11 digits) takes it outside of our mental grasp.
Mass and energy are interchangeable. Energy and mass are interchangeable and indestructible. The equation is the basis of all nuclear physics and has subsequently been verified experimentally. Moreover, although energy may change to another form, or to mass and vice versa, matter cannot be destroyed, only metamorphosed.
The world about us changed from then on. We had been used to three dimensions, up and down, side to side and backwards and forwards. Now we had to cope with a fourth - time. It doesn’t stop there, as it turns out there may be any number of dimensions. Those not wishing to believe in what the eye cannot see should leave now.
In more recent times, there were Newton, Darwin, then Einstein, Crick, Hoyle and Hawkins but possibly Darwin and Einstein made the most impact on our senses and beliefs. My feeling is that something more wonderful and mysterious lies ahead. The field of exploration will be quantum mechanics, the study of the infinitesimally small.
Space-time is not something from science fiction but the here and now. Its governing force is that weakest of force-fields, gravity
In fact, in physics, space-time and gravity mean the same thing and it permeates the whole of the cosmos. Shut down gravity and the universe disappears. Electro-magnetism is also a force-field but, together with time is a part of gravity. There’s no point in trying to figure out the meaning of these terms as even scientists cannot yet do this or substantiate them mathematically. Just one of those things; you know damn well it is there but cannot prove it mathematically - yet.
Gravity can, though, provide us with a local sense of dimensional space to which most of us grab onto, denying anything outside our own personal experiences. We hang on grimly to our walls, floors and clocks and except, perhaps after imbibing too rashly, can tell which way up we are, even with our eyes shut. Some of us admit to sensing “something great” out there whilst others feel safer by shutting their minds to it.

Hello Len

wow!! You certainly give us something to think about when you do contribute - so just keep paying that membership!

Hope you're well!

Hello Lindy and Dorothy.

I spend a lot of time scratching my head, wearing away the hair follicles, and I feel it would be a waste of energy if only heat but no thoughts came out of it.

len

Hello Len,

Fascinating reading, cannot say I understand all.

When you put that matter cannot be destroyed only metamorphasised, does this mean that we are on a journey as well as being recycled after death.

So the world is not as we perceive it then. It doesn’t really matter. We are all made of stardust (molecules on a carbon atom base) and to stardust we shall return.
But for those who care to look, there is a world of wonder and beauty, even in mathematics. Most mathematicians do not usually view their subject as a thing of beauty – elegant maybe. So what can be beautiful about maths? I expect some view famous equations, such as Einstein’s e=mc² as beautiful as it gives the minimal assumption but opens a whole world of thought. But as for visual beauty, fractals are pure maths (geometry but not as Euclid taught it) but a delight for the eye. The more you zoom in on a fractal, the more detail you get. And this keeps going on forever and ever. The void is full of fractals - Google “fractals”.
Space is endless patterns, perhaps an enormous fractal.
The ancient Mayans of South America who invented a calendar of remarkable accuracy and complexity, based on astronomical observations and advanced mathematics, were, by its means, able to project dates far into the future. It used three different dating systems in parallel with each other. It is of particular interest because it theoretically predicts the end of the world on 21st December 2012. Until that date passes there will be some folk wondering about the worth of their long-term investments whilst others will be wondering if they have chosen the best philosophy in life. They got quite a few things wrong so there’s hope for us.
The generic term for the energy that pervades life and the universe is Life Force. Some cosily think of it personified in the shape of a little old man, with a harp, sitting on a cloud.
Sceptics and some scientists do not believe in it at all, particularly the Geneticist Prof. Richard Dawkins who has just published a book disposing of God. Dawkins is one of those narrow minded souls. It take a particular sort of arrogance to dismiss the beliefs of others when, by their own admission 96% of the Cosmos is completely unknown and unimaginable to science. He may be offended by being referred to as a soul, but there you go. These people never seem to stray beyond the confines of their own particular discipline. He really should engage in conversation with a quantum physicist, engineer or even an astronaut who has returned from space
George Lucas the film director, in his Star Wars film was near the mark when he had his character Obi-Wan Kenobi describe life force as “The Force” or an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds and penetrates us and binds the galaxy together. Every culture on earth has a term for the concept of life force. Christian, Jewish, Islamic.and many other cultural traditions dub it “the soul”.
Each of us has a bio-electric field which can be detected and measured. Moreover, we are constantly being bombarded and penetrated by particles from the sun or outer space. We could not survive without this constant stream of energy. Sufferers from S.A.D (Seasonal Affective Disorder) know only too well how they are plunged into gloom and depression by receiving insufficient of the particles of energy called photons. To Joe Soap in the street, that is sunlight. It produces vitamin D in our bodies and in all plants and surface-dwelling animals by photosynthesis.
There are some creatures, deep underground or under the deepest oceans, who manage without. They source their requirements for life from chemicals.
Other particles of matter such as neutrinos pass clear through the earth without stopping.
Take away the sunlight and we all die – as did the dinosaurs (or most of them). There are a number of therapies that use light (energy waves) to promote healing and a sense of well-being. Light, which is an energy form (that mostly travels in waves), whether natural or man-made affects the amount of hormones secreted by our pineal, hypothalamus and pituitary glands in the brain. We are also greatly affected by gravity. The moon does more than create tides. It's monthly cycle has it's parallel in the monthly cycles of many animals including humans.
The closer the light is to sunlight, the better. It is recommended for convalescing patients and is beneficial in the treatment of various disorders including those as different as skin conditions, jet lag, sleep disorder and dyslexia.
In the same order of electro-mechanical rays are ultra-violet light and x-rays and many others of which more is to be said

If one could catch a space rocket and travel from one side of the universe to the other, travelling at 186,000 miles per second, repeat: per second, the journey would take 156 thousand million years.
Our galaxy, the Milky Way, is a mere speck of dust in this vastness, our solar system a mote in the galaxy. The entire human existence is a nothing; a mere blip in the passage of biological time which began on earth about 308 million years ago.
Even our next-door neighbour galaxy, Andromeda, is some two million light years away - meaning it would take two million years for a signal to get there, travelling at the speed of light, 186,000 miles a second. Mankind’s biggest and best rocket would be lucky to do 186,000 miles in 6 hours let alone 1 second.
And think of all the food, drink and changes of undies that would be needed on the voyage if emigrating to Andromeda

Hi Len, glad to see you contributing something intelligent for us all to think about! I met and chatted with you and Mary at Gaynor's do a few years back and am glad to hear you are both well. I agree with you that I don't recognise many contributors these days either!! But there are lots of nice people now just as there always were.

Wonder if GR will renew for me next month. then???

Georgina
I hope to get around to that point.

But, if according to the known laws of physics, matter and energy cannot be destroyed but only changed to another form, what do you think happens to consciouness (which is another name for mind, soul or spirit) ?
len

Hi Len,

If our thoughts are produced by us, are these then not sent out into the universe via the electricty we produce in the brain.
I feel the 'soul' does not die with physical but is part of creation. Thoughts like matter cannot be destroyed, feel this could be the soul!! am I way off??
I do believe that something started all of this - known and unknown around us.

Hi Helen
I remember you well and have looked out for you at subsequent meets. Where were you?

Georgina.
Are our thoughts produced by our brain or by our consciousness? I hope, eventually, to make out a case for these being two separate entities.
Consciousness operates in conjuction with the brain and physical body but there is accumulating evidence that it is not a brain function but exists independently. It may leave the body and may (or may not) return.
The electricity we produce works our brain and our bodies but is not manufactured by the brain. Our entire system produces an electromagnetic field which is detectable by instruments as an "aura" for maybe a couple of feet all round us.
len

In the 1970s, Lawrence Weinskrantz documented a condition known as “blindsight”. It is a phenomenon where the blind somehow perceived or “saw” events going on around them, without the involvement of their normal senses. Other researchers have many times confirmed this.
There are perceptual faculties within the brain/mind apparently not connected to the visual cortex or other physical senses. This applies not only to humans. A rhesus monkey surgically deprived of its visual cortex, taught itself to feed. Over a period of years, it was observed picking up currants and even catching passing flies. Under test conditions humans, gifted with blindsight, were offered various things (e.g. a wine glass or book) and their hand assumed the correct shape to grasp the article.

Studies of identical twins indicate that they may often have what may be called a shared consciousness. They appear to read each other’s minds, exchange feelings and emotions and even communicate on a mental level. Even when separated from early childhood, they often appear to lead parallel lives, including illnesses, accidents, marriage dates etc. to a degree that is beyond chance.
Past studies of identical twins separated at birth have documented remarkable similarities between them, despite the fact that they were reared under radically different circumstances. Their physical appearances, habits, vocations, health histories, and other factors are often eerily the same. For example, two female identical twins, who had never seen each other, each wore eight rings! The upshot of such investigations is that most of a person's characteristics are genetic in origin; that is, nature dominates nurture.
But what about identical twins who are remarkably different? They can, for instance, differ appreciably in size, intellect, and behavior. In such cases, does nurture dominate nature? No! Identical twins may diverge even in the womb, where one may receive more oxygen and nutrients than the other. One also may be assailed by viruses, bacteria, or drugs, while the other escapes. Even more drastic is the possibility that one twin may pick up an extra chromosome soon after the original egg has split. Also, mutations may doom one twin to Down's syndrome or some other genetic affliction, while the other is unscathed. Identical twins may even be of different sex. Of course, such twins are genetically different, but they are still monozygotic (from the same egg). Blood tests will show them to be identical.
It used to be thought that the small differences that did exist between identical twins separated at birth were surely due to nurture, not nature. But, considering all the differences that can accrue, it seems that the role of nurture in shaping individuals is much smaller than thought, possibly negligible. (Horgan, John; "Double Trouble," Scientific American, 263

Dr V.P Lommel and his team at Rijnstate Hospital in Holland have researched “Near Death Experience” at hundreds of patients at hospitals across the country. These patients had been resuscitated after being clinically brain-dead and interviewed as soon as they were well enough to be gently questioned. Many reported being “out of the body” and observing from a “higher” place in the theatre the medical activities to revive them. This would have been at a time when there had been no electrical activity whatsoever in the brain and they were clinically dead.
The team reached conclusions that “pushed at the limit of medical ideas about the range of human consciousness and the mind/brain relationship”. Christopher French, of the Anomalistic Psychology Research Dept. of Goldsmith College. London, observed: “If researchers could prove that clinically dead patients with no electrical activity in their cortex can be aware of what went on round them and form memories, this would suggest that the brain does not generate consciousness”.

Dr Stephan Schmidt and researchers at Freiberg University, one of Germany’s oldest and most respected academic institutions, in June 2004 published a paper in The British Journal of Psychology which was widely reported in the National press. Scientists have found evidence that humans may indeed possess a sixth sense. Hundreds of experiments appear to show that people can tell when they are being watched, even from afar by a hidden observer.
They are surprised to find their experiments indicate that humans do have paranormal powers. “There’s a kind of energy field that, as yet, we cannot measure but which can, in various ways, interact between living organisms”.
The boffins call it “distant intentionality” (well, they would, wouldn’t they) but from time immemorial ordinary folk have called it telepathy.

Most people can say what consciousness feels like. It’s being awake, aware; it’s knowing what is going on and the difference between you and me. It is thoughts and sounds, self-image and a sense of history. It’s about what it feels like to be you.
Consciousness is a really tough nut for science, though, as it cannot (as distinct from electrical brain activity) be weighed, measured or detected with instruments. That is why a definition and assessment of it has, until now, been left to philosophy and religion.
However scientists, mostly medical doctors, biologists and neurologists and some physicists, largely as a result of break-throughs in the fields of brain-imaging and electrical monitoring, are gaining an insight and adding their weight to the debate.
Researchers are steadily making progress but are still in the dark about what aspect of brain activity makes for consciousness. There is certainly no particular brain area that is active when we are conscious and inactive when we are unconscious.
From studies made in Holland and others parts of the world, conducted by eminent doctors, there is evidence of consciousness (in the form of memories being laid down) when subjects are clinically brain-dead, albeit temporarily. And there seems to be no threshold of neural activity above which we are conscious, or a type of neurochemistry that accompanies consciousness.
The greatest field of exploration remaining to science is that of the mind. Most scientists still claim the mind to be a brain function and purely physical but emerging scientific evidence shows it is quite clearly non-physical.