General Chat

My hubby is a manager in IT.....he has found out he is earning £10k less than one of his juniors in his team. He had a meeting with HR, who promised some thing would be done for him....he was offered a pay rise and a different, better package......the package is far worse than he is on now. Hubby has said he wont sign to accept the package and runs a 99% risk if being sacked without notice. Is this constructive dismissal? Can he do anything? Many thanks, Donna******UPDATE**** Dave has seen VP who agrees the package is c**p. He says, USA HR are the problem, basically, Dave has ruffled some feathers over there (he was asked his opinion on a deal....they ignored him, it all went wrong as Dave had warned). UK office and HR dont want him to leave and doing what they can.....but its USA HR who will ask for him to be dismissed and they have the final word!

Hi Strump - thats sounds awful. l have'nt a clue but could you phone the C A B?? jude sarf wales

Hi Donna Oh eck. First of all, how long has he been with the company? They can't just sack him, they would have to make him redundant - with a full package. I think that they are able to make him redundant if they have offered him a 'different' job and he doesn't accept - because they can say that his current job won't exist any longer. If you still need more info later on in the day, let me know and I'll ask Marston .. he's been involved with redundancy packages etc and should be able to help. Love to you both, Mandy xx

Since Feb o4, its not a different job, he was told verbally he had a pay rise last week. I cannot get hold of CAB, oh ek!

Donna - Just spoken to Phil - because his employers tried this too - they found they couldn't impose a new contract on their workers without their agreement - but that was 15 years ago -Employment Law has no doubt changed since then. Is Dave in a union? - What do they say? What does his present Contract of Employment say? You could probably track down an answer by looking at employment law on the internet. Whatever the answer - his employers sound like right ****'s he may be better off looking for another job! Keep us posted Magsxx

Hi Strump/Donna, (sorry i'm having a senior moment, lol.) Not really knowing anything about the rights of employees but I would say he would have a case if he was sacked. Does he not have a union leader of sorts he can go to? There must be a employees rights thingy where you can ask for advice. It disgusting how some companies treat their staff. Margaret

Donna, Go to this site and read about it. You may get some help and advise. http://www.canter-law*co*uk/employment/constructive_dismissal.html Good luck, Jacky :-)

He isnt in a union, its an American company, his contract states they can dismiss him, if he refuses to carry out his work (he isnt doing that). The VP gave a verbal pay rise and better package last week. The new package has totally made his salary lower.

Definately take proper advice. We were in a similar situation about 15 years ago, so a lots changed since then My husbands company were merged with another. His job disappeared they offered him an alternative, it worked out almost similar to you, he was earning around £20,000 ,mind you doing all the hours, but was a manager in a security company with many people under him. The alternative, sitting in a booth at Dartford tunnel, £10,000 fixed salary, no managerial no car or petrol. Total joke, that or voluntary redundancy. In the end he took redundancy as the travelling with no car etc., into London would have killed us financially and emotionally. Well all our insurance policys against unemployment wouldn't pay out as he had taken the redundancy. All he got from the redundancy that was a few weeks pay. He was then out of work for several years. Total nightmare. So be careful. These policys they get you to take out aren't worth the paper they are written on. Good luck Donna. Dianex

From my trusty penguin guide to the law, circa 1986 so probably well out of date: 'Sometimes the employer does not sack the employee but instead behaves in such a way that the employee is justified in leaving, Despite the fact the employee has not been sacked it will count as a 'dismissal' and so he will be able to bring an unfair dismissal claim. To amount to constructive dismissal the employers conduct must be a serious breach of the employment contract (eg if the employee is demoted or has his wages cut) when this happens the employee can regard himself as having been constructively dismissed by his employer and so he can resign and claim unfair dismissal. The employers conduct must be a breah of the employment contract. The mere fact that the employer is behaving unreasonably will not make it constructive dismissal unless the employer is also breaking the employment contract or unless the unreasonable behaviour is so grave as to amount to a breach of contract' There is more but it will take me ages to type it. I could try to scan the pages and email to you if you would like, but probably won't be until tonight when I get home from work. Message me if you would like me to Lisa

Terms and conditions can not be changed without consent of the individual and salary comes under terms and conditions. get him to involve HR and they should sort it for him. If they sack him cos he won't sign unfavourable terms then yes it is a case of constructive dismissal! he has to put his reasons for not accepting the new terms in writing tho before it gets to sacking stage so he covers himself. Good luck

Thanks all of you. He would be escorted from the building today if he doesnt sign the new package. At the moment im trying to keep him calm on the end of the phone and im trying not to panic! Going by the brilliant site Jackie, he does have grounds. Ive asked Dave to try and have a meeting with his VP before anyone does anything hasty.

If they escort him from the building for not signing, it sounds like he would have a case for unfair dismissal anyway Strump. Good luck! Lisa

Don't know if it will help but this site from the department of trade and industry looks helpful http://www.dti(.)gov.uk/er/individual/unfair-pl712.htm remove brackets as ususal.

Your great all of you. My phone has been like a hotline. Im waiting for two solicitors to call me back. Daves gone silent, so i hope this means he is in with the VP and/or HR I have this awful feeling, his company wouldnt do anything unless it was to their advantage. Donna x

Strump -l do so hope you can get it sorted - good luck - keep your chins up both of you jude sarf wales xx

Hi Donna Keep us posted, I've got everything crossed for you and Dave to have a good result from this. Hugs Karen x

i can't add anything constructive only that i am thinking of you Jess x

small update.

There has to be a reason for dismissal babe and not agreeing to c**p terms is not a reason!! he really needs the VP to intervene.