General Chat

From today's Sunday Times: Since the dawn of thought , philosophers have asked how a wholly good God could create a world where evil exists. Either the existence of God is logically incompatible with the evil in the world, or the existence of God is improbable with respect to the amount of evil in the world. To engage in such arguments (known as 'the problem of evil') is to be engaged in a theodicy , a scheme to disclose the compatibility between God and evil. The problem, of course, is reaching a definition of evil. In the past, people grasped at despots and holocausts, wars and massacres, without satisfaction. But in 2005, at last, we have our definition: the urban 4 x 4. This socially superfluous, gas-guzzling, child-killing, road clogging, planet murdering, ugly whoreson beast panders to and exacerbates the lowest instincts of spiritually corrupt, status-obsesssed, solipsistic, post-lapsarian man. Chesterton wrote that 'the Devil's greatest triumph was convincing the modern world that he did not exist'. But he has fluffed it now, for the existence of the 4 x 4 proves unquestionably that he does. Professor Gideon Garter

Has something upset you, Len? Rob

Totally agree with you. Then they decide to 'visit the country' and destroy the Ridgeway and South Downs way because they appear to have lost the use of their legs!!! Their excuse - 'It's an off-roader, it's my right' LOL LOL As a pedestrian/walker, it's my right to walk along these routes without having to dodge 2 foot deep ruts!! maggie

Good to hear from you Robert. Are you well? No, nothing upsets me much - it made me laugh so thought I would pass it on. 'The thought for today' as the vicar would have said. Mike If you look carefully, you will see the word 'urban' Len

Fair is fair boys and girls - they are not all on the school runs - the rest of them are in the car parks of Sainsburys, Tescos etc. A right job it is to reverse out when they park either side of you - you cannot see a dammed thing. Ann

Precisely Mike. They think that they are safer in one........actually a lot are more unstable than the makers care to admit...... Bob

Ann, At least if they're in a car park us mere mortals can watch the drivers/passengers trying to get in and out of them whilst trying to retain some dignity (them, not us - mind you I have been known to cackle out loud) LOL maggie

Have you noticed, It is usually the smallest people drive the biggest cars?

I drive a land rover and yes occasionally take the kids to school and do the shopping in it every week, but live in a rural area, where we get flooded out a lot. I occassionally go green laning on local lanes and know the farmers who's fields i have to cross and do it responsibly, not fast and never with more than 2 other vehicles. If we come across any walkers, we stop and allow them to walk by, before we carry on. They usually are very polite(most of them!) and we also go and tidy the lanes up and cut the hedges back and take the cuttings to the tip,all voluntarily. If i want to do serious 'off roading' i go to wales, to a 600 acre site and pay my money and have a good time. The land owner makes a tidy profit and the site is just for 4x4's and motorbikes. Its not a thing i brought to annoy anyone, i actually inherited my landrover off my stepdad, who was a farmer and like to use it for fun, but not out to damage anything or upset anyone. Nick.

NIck, It's not meant to be personal :0) As with all things, the majority are branded by the minority! But there are some morons out there who assume they can go where they like, just because they can!!! I actually get taken to the Ridgeway etc by a friend who drives a Subaru Legacy - and he's as peed off about the state of the Ridgeway etc as me!! He lives on the New Forest and is a carpenter - a Fiesta couldn't cope with the weight of his tools!!!!! Having said that, he's only used the 4x4 bit once - trying to get out of a point to point. maggie

Maggie, i do not disagree with any of you on this thread,like i said, some of us are responsible owner/drivers who only go to pay and play sites...i can see why people complain tho...i saw a protest on the news recently, where the protestors were stopping 4wheel drive owners and asking why they owned such a vehicle when only doing school runs..and could see their point.. I'm in a club, a club of responsible Landrover owners, who just go to proper sites or organised events all over europe and, i would say, the majority of us are very concerned about the effect of these people who just have a 4x4 for road use only.A status symbol. Nick.

Interesting to see this topic surface in the UK -just a few days ago, the same arguments surfaced here in Perth Western Australia after a mum on a school run killed a little five year old girl on the school grounds. Apparently, the child could not be seen from the 4WD. What I couldn't make out was why the vehicle was on the grounds at all -most schools have strict rules about where to drop off/ pick up children -and it is NOT in the school grounds. Beverley (who believes 4WDs were built for the bush, not the suburbs)

hubby drives a range rover! its his baby.he is a responsible driver and doesnt do what he wants in it. i think people should be able to drive what car they want. they are no more dangerous than any other car. its the drivers that are the danger!! because its a 'gas guzzler' hubby tends to drive slower!!! why cant people drive around in the car of their choice? surely its up to them. the world is full of so called do gooders.they ought to get a life instead of critisising others susie

Ann - when two 4x4's park either side of our gates (on a very busy road) it is almost impossible to reverse out safely. The drivers of these monsters have either gone to the nearby tram (and left their vehicles parked all day) or taken kids to school round the corner and will be back again at 3.0 pm! Yes, we do all have a choice as to what we drive BUT the feeling we owners of 'normal' cars have is that drivers of these monsters feel so superior, not helped by the fact that a lot round here are driven by leggy blondes (miaow...) or little, fat men who need to boost their egos! However, now that I am older and arthritic, I must admit it would be easier to get out of a monster truck! Lily

I drive a 4x4 and I make no apologies for it. I bought it with money honestly earned and I chose it simply because I like it.

jayvee come here hun,let me give you a hug lol my hubby loves his he drives a van all week at work and so why shouldnt he drive around in comfort at the weekends? he doesnt feel superior at all when hes driving his,he is is usual normal self! susie

I can understand how these things P*** some people off ....but like everything else it should be up to freedom of choice, and safe driving boils down to personal reponsibility. We have a 4x4 as we live in a rural area. We've NEVER been off roading as a pleasure activity, out vehicle is simply in cases of neccessity. So why call to penalise us with a massive road tax bill through no fault of where we live? As a side note for Lilly, the highway code states it's illegal to reverse out onto a highway, so for your own safety I'd learn to reverse INTO your driveway, so you can exit safely if the gas guzzling, road hogging, school runners do happen to park either side of your gate. X Sioux

forgot to mention earlier hubbys range rover is gas converted so its cheaper to run than your so called proper cars. we dont use any more road space than any other cars so why should we be taxed more? we also,like souix,dont go off roading either,so i just wish these so called do-gooders would get a life and leave us 4x4 owners alone you chose your car and we have chosen ours!! susie

Well said Susie. We also have one because we wanted one. Jxx

julie thankyou hun im sick to death of being moaned at because we have a nice car. what about all these people with sports cars,they are more of a danger than us. susie