General Chat

I think we have been here before Gwynne. No teacher has ever been abused by any of my four children, but I can assure you that these same children have been abused by teachers. I did not in anyway infere that teachers should not be respected, I said that like the rest of us they have to earn it. You may have gone into teaching because you like children. The same could not and should not be said about all teachers. I did not intend for any offence to becaused by my remarks. However I have to say that the news on these boards over the last few days, does not give a good picture of people who go into teaching for love of children. I have spent a lot of time with teachers at my childrens schools. Believe me. Not all teachers are deserving of respect. I do not include you in this remark, how could I, I know nothing about you. By the same token, you cannot assume that I and my children are yobs. Deanna X

Hi Deanna, I certainly wasn't implying that your children were yobs, please don't think that. My parents always told me to watch my mouth in school and report problems to them, this worked quite well. I was taught to respect all those in authority - teachers, the police, nurses, doctors, youth leaders, bus drivers etc. My disrespect for some of these came as adulthood did. Children should be taught (in my view) to respect all adults. It is this lack of respect that leads to a lot of yobbery, vandalism and bullying of people in the street. Parents of those responsible have to accept the blame for this kind of behaviour. If their children do not respect them they are hardly likely to respect other adults. I don't disbelieve you about there being teachers who don't like children, I just can't understand it. The working conditions are awful, the workload very onerous, in and out of school, and the pay isn't that good. If I didn't love kids I'd have quit in my first year. I don't defend bad practice in schools but I differentiate between that and fairly harmless mistakes or errors of judgement. I think some parents go off the deep end about really trivial things and often misunderstand the circumstances. (I'm not saying that is the case here) Children lie. They lie to keep themselves out of trouble, to make themselves look good to their friends and sometimes just because they can. It's part of growing up and testing the bounderies. Our job as teachers and parents is to be very firm about where the bounderies are and support each other. I always used to tell the parents of 'my' children That if they promised not to automatically believe what the children said happened in school, I wouldn't automatically believe what they said about what happened at home. Maybe I was lucky I nearly always had a lovely relationship with the parents of the children in my care. If there were problem they knew they could talk to me at any time and we were always able to sort things out. I'm now at an age where I teach the children of those I taught and many of them seem to have happy memories of being in my class and are glad that their children are with me. I'm sure I wasn't the perfect teacher and they weren't perfect children but we forgave each other our small mistakes. Most of us do the best we can and it is upsetting and soul destroying when some parents undermine our authority and make the job even harder. Gwynne.

hi everyone, i've been out all morning and just got back. the great thing about this board is everyone is able to voice an opinion,which is why i asked for them,however there is no need to get nasty. Jess for your information neither of my daughters have a fleece or coat which is blue,i'm not stupid ,if they had they would have been wearing it.my daughter didn't just wear a t shirt but also a jumper and a coat but as i've said she wasn't allowed to wear them outside. finally i would like to say that both of my children have wonderful teachers who both my girls think are great and particually my youngest has come on leaps and bounds since being with this particular teacher. i would hate any teacher reading this to think that we as parents didn't support them,we do, but in return i expect our children to be looked after, Karen

I notice that several people have commented about Teachers not receiving due recognition. Maybe the answer lies elsewhere. We all expect a certain standard from everyone who works. Bricklayers are expected to build walls perpendicular and straight. Plumbers are expected to not leave leaky pipes. Mathematicians are expected to be able to add up. Teachers are expected to teach. These are minimum requirements and we usually only comment about the standard if we feel it falls short of our expectations. Maybe the reason Teachers get villified is because older people compare today's teaching methods rather unfavourably against their own experiences at school? Or maybe we have come to expect a higher standard in today's world in the same way we expect our cars to take us to Scotland and back without breaking down, whereas 40 or 50 years ago you would be lucky to get to the next town and back without having to fix something. I have Teachers in my family and feel their frustrations at having to spend more time dealing with unruly pupils than in actually teaching. At the same time I personally would like to see a Test at the end of every term to establish whether the pupils had learned the course material or not. This would not only show who needs remedial lessons, but also which Teachers are ineffective, and should be moved out of the profession, so increasing the prestige and respect due to the good ones.

Kracker - i never intended to imply that you were, If you took my words to be that then please accept my appologies. However i would love to know why Deanna thinks people teach if they dont like children...... jess

Grampa Christmas, I think some people are looking at their own schooling through rose coloured glasses. When my dad went to school all that was required was that they were taught to read, write, add up and know some basic history and geography. By the time he started teaching in the late 1940s, times had moved on, the school leaving age was raised and a much wider curriculum was offered. The leaving age was raised again in the 1960s and more subjects offered. When he retired in the mid 70s he was amazed at the progress in teaching methods and by how much the children were expected to learn compared to when he started. He was also appalled at the decline in standards of behaviour. He says, as do I, that it is the job of parents to teach their children how to behave. Most teachers can teach quite well, providing children have been taught how to behave by their parents. SATs and GCSEs assess teachers as well as children. If a class usually does well in end of year tests and then suddenly does badly then the blame is attached to the teacher and quite rightly so. Every year more and more is asked of our schools - the healthy eating campaign, for example, that would never have happened when I was at school. Teachers are paid very poorly compared to others with equivalent qualifications. Some good teachers have to give up and get better paid jobs, so perhaps the general standard may be falling. Maybe we should think about paying them better. I won't defend bad teaching but there is a lot more good stuff than bad going on in schools today. The standard of literacy is rising. Very few children leave school unable to read and write, in my father's day 10% of children left school unable to read and write. Gwynne

To be truthful there is good and bad people in every job. People tend to forget that even though teachers are just that, they are also parents themselves. To me i have always noticed that parents expect one thing from a school yet none of them ever ask for a copy of any of the policies so don't actually know how that school works etc, as each school is different, they all have to follow the basics and have all the procedure and policies in place, but they are not the same as the next school. yes you daughter should not have stood outside in just a tea-shirt, but there would have been a choice, either she not take part and watch while everyone else in the school takes part or she should have gone into school better dressed for the occasion ( yes i noticed you had nothing else blue ). Also i bet the teachers didnt know how long they would have been outside either.As i know myself i would not have known how long it would take to get the whole school to circle around our school, i think they did a good job if it only took 15 Min's, LOL, i know in our school it would have taken much longer. If i were your daughters teacher i would have asked her if she had wanted to take part in just a tea-shirt and also told her that if she did want to take part then she could go into the building if she felt too cold. :-) p.s i do agree with Jess about teachers do get a bad time.

Jess, I find it impossible to answer that question. How can I tell anyone why people who don't like children teach? There are many, I can assure you. Respecting adults is a very good idea, and is how I was brought up. It is how I brought my children up. are you, or is anyone trying to tell me that ALL adults deserve respect? Quaint idea. I have lived next door to people to whom I would never give respect. NEITHER would I show them any disrespect. I would just not bother with them. BUT, that did not stop them attacking anyone they felt like abusing. I did not come on here for an arguement. I don't think I know anyone on here well enough to argue with. I did however make a comment and give an opinion on the behaviour of one (in my opinion) very stupid teacher. Deanna X

Jess, thank you--accecpted. Nichola, i have asked my daughter if she was given the option to go inside she has told me she wasn't but to jump up and down to keep warm.Perhaps if the school had sent a letter home saying they were intending to do this,i wouldn't be sat here complaining this thread wasn't intended to bash teachers,as i've said i couldn't be more happy with my daughters.

Things don't change do they?! I remember having a row about this sort of thing with our kids' school some12 years ago - if I was a teacher, i would not be able to let children outside without warm clothing on. I nag my own even now for not wrapping up! I do support teachers and think they have a difficult job, but in this case, they made a misjudgement! Allie x

Thats disgusting! I'd go up the school if i were you. I remember many a time when my dad thought things were a joke and went up the school. Things soon changed!

Deanna - in all my years of education - and thats all i've ever done, i must have been extremely lucky, because , as yet , i've not met even ONE! if you think people train to become your childrens teachers./ educators for the long holidays teamed with top rate pay, you're very very wrong. I'm not going to say anymore on the subject now Jess

Sounds like a case of poor communication to me. My daughter's last school was terrible for that. If it was a case of wanting money for some reason then they couldn't get letters out quick enough. However, if it was to tell us that an after school club had been cancelled, for whatever reason, they hardly ever sent letters out. Instead they used to rely on the children to tell us themselves. Very annoying when you got a phone call to say they needed picking up because there was no club that afternoon (with an unspoken implication that you should have known even though they didn't send a letter home).

There is no excuse for cruelty, and that's what sending a child out in the freezing cold wearing just a t-shirt is.

Sorry but I don't understand why they had to do their anti-bullying thing OUTSIDE in the first place??? In mid-summer maybe, but on the coldest day of the year - why not inside??? I too would be LIVID at this - it has nothing to do with teaching skills, it is just common sense that you don't make anyone (let alone kids) stand outside on the coldest day of the year in just a t-shirt. They HAD coats with them for goodness sake - how dare anyone refuse to let them be worn! I wouldn't go outside without a coat at this time of year (how many people would?) and certainly wouldn't make a child do so. Maz. XX

thanks for all your comments K

glad you have got it more or les sorted karen. Incidentally it could have caused the cold. It was in one of the papers last week that the old wives tale about getting a chill if we don't wrap up warm are true. apparently when the body temperature is lowered we are more susceptible to catching viruses such as colds. ann Glos

Personally I can't really see that forming a circle around a school and wearing something blue will make a bully think twice about being a bully.....

My son thinks if it is sunny then it won't be cold - he's 7 - what is your Head Teacher's excuse??!! Was he outside too? Did he have his coat on? I still can't believe this!! Maz. XX

My thoughts excatly Maz,(btw all but two of the teachers had coats on) K