General Chat

Len, I agree with you entirely. It is iniquitous. I know of an elderly widow who, many years ago, voluntarily went into a care home after doing herself some serious damage in a fall at home. She owned her house outright by that time, but it was too large for her to manage, as she was living alone without family nearby, she was afraid of having another accident and being unable to get help, so she decided to go into a care home. Her house was sold and continued to pay what seemed an astronomical sum for her keep in a priviate care home for many years. She was reasonably near her family, and she was very happy there, but eventually the home owner sold up and its new owners announced that they were selling the home and grouhds to a property developer (to make a considerable profit). She was then forced to relocate to another home further away from her family. The same process happened with that home, and by the time she died last year, she'd been shunted around half a dozen homes and all her savings and proceeds of sale of her house were long gone. She ended her days in a Council-owned home, where she'd been very unhappy and hadn't been very well cared for. Neither she, nor her husband, had ever been a burden on the State and had paid due taxes all their lives. My own mother (whose only income was her State pension), even in an advanced state of dementia, was ineligible for a place in a Council nursing home until she'd had so many illnesses and accidents that she'd been admitted to hospital SEVEN times within a year. Only after she'd fallen off a kerb in a busy street and concussed herself was she finally assessed properly by geriatricians in the hospital. All my previous attempts to get her the help she needed had been brushed aside. I think it's an absolute scandal that elderly people are treated so badly when they're at their most vulnerable, yet so much public money is thrown at far less deserving causes. In their earlier days, they had to endure hardships, illness, poverty (in most cases) and wars - why should they go without now so that others can have a better standard of living? CB >|<

Gwynne - your Dad's very lucky he has a choice. They are few and far between in this neck of the woods and the really nice one locally was sold by the owner knowing that the company who bought it intended to turn it into a ring fenced place for those who had offended but 'were no longer a threat to society'. My Aunt Fanny!!! The locals have and are putting up a fight and the new owners may not necessarily have it their own way but time will tell. By the way - I see you don't want to pay more taxes but you'd not say no to the money from the sale of your father's house if there's any left. I call that double standards. I totally agree with Len who started this thread.

You've just proved my point CB.

Well you could always give the proceeds to the state Gwynne if you feel so strongly couldn't you? We agree to disagree, OK?

Jill, I'm not out to prove anyone's point, just stating my opinion. I don't believe that people who have paid taxes all their lives and made sacrifices to own their own homes and not take up Council properties should be penalised by losing their entire investment. Those people also paid into the National Health fund. My husband is taxed to the hilt, so are our savings, I paid full NI contributions and income tax while working for 30 years, our son also pays income tax and NI contributions. We've never drained State resources and have only ever received Child Benefit for one child. Is it too much to ask that we should expect health care when we most need it? My parents were never in a position to own their own home, their home was destroyed in WWII and they lost everything they owned. My father was a serving soldier for most of his life and died young, so he was hardly a burden on the State. My mother never took more than her old age pension and only claimed housing benefit for the last few years of her life. She died aged 89. We've worked damned hard and saved to have a home of our own.and our son can't afford his own, so this is also his home. We paid fees for his secondary and university education, so he's not been much of a burden on State funds either. We're quite happy to contribute, should we need to go into a care home when we're older, but it benefits no-one if our hard-won investment in property (our own home) cannot be passed on to our son. He will just become another person on a Council waiting list. CB >|<

Didn't know I'd called you a hypocrite Gwynne but presumably you're referring to what I said by you could always give the proceeds to the state if you felt so strongly. I still say that. And now, if you don't mind; we'll agree to disagree as I said earlier. I have fish to fry just now.

Gwynne,I realise you have socialist principles but do not decry those people (including myself) who have paid their way and saved for their retirement and find at the end of the day they finish up with nothing and have to sell their homes to find the care they deserve. The underlying problem to this is the mass illegal immigrants being kept by OUR taxes , money which should be spent on other things. Money wasted by this government in the millions on hair brained schemes. All governments make mistakes but none so many as this one . This government is taxing the middle classes and making laws regarding the elderly so that they can dole out money right left and centre to those of the population who are too idle to work. or who come to this land of ours for free handouts Rupert

Most councils in this country have sold of their care homes,so 90% of the people who go into care and have their hard earned lifetime investment used to pay for their care are lining the pockets of private owners,so therefor that money is not going to the N.H.S.I for one,think that over tne last 40 years i have paid enough in taxes ect to see me okay in my later life Steve from Somerset

why should anyone sell their house to be looked after!! They work all their lives to build a home,a little money in the bank ,and for what?? so the govenment can take it off them!! Im sorry but its not about children getting their property,and so what if they do thats what most people want to do pass it on to their families, I just find it disgusting that when people have paid into insurance contributions all their lives they can do this. Some people never pay a penny and get help, its not right, we live in a society where hard work is not repaid. I feel sorry for people who are genuine cases and need help but there are also alot of scroungers in our society that in my opinion should get off their backsides and earn their keep!!

I was working much of the weekend, but I did catch some of this programme. I do agree that it seems extremely unfair, not to mention illegal, to force people to sell their homes to pay for their care, that is after all what the NHS is supposed to be there for. If its a question of an increase in tax, well perhaps thats what should happen. That said.. reading between the lines on this thread, I get the impression that for some people home ower = good, council tenant = bad. That disturbs me. I come from a working class background, and grew up in a council house. My father worked hard all his life, my mother did too and raised 4 children. I own my own home (or rather, I pay a mortgage). That doesn't mean I'm any better than my father, nor more or less deserving of the same standard of NHS care.

Paul has just put into words what I have been unable to express for myself I have been reading this thread and getting more and more irritated by the comments that seem to be directed at people who live in council housing My parents moved into a brand new council house in 1952, when there was possibly not the stigma attached that there appears to be nowdays. My Dad worked hard all his life. He then had his care paid for by the state when he suffered from dementia in the 1990's, and I am deeply hurt and offended to think that people look upon him, and others like him as some kind of scrounger or paraiste. Dee x

I agree with Dee & Paul. I live in a council flat but I work full-time & have paid tax since I was 18 - the inference that I'm a less worthy member of society than anyone else because I don't own my home really pees me off.

Thank you Paul, Dee and David :-) Juliexx

I have now just watched this programme 3 questions I would like to raise. I am the sole inheritor (in her will) of my mums bungalow so if I were to be forced to sell her house to pay for her care what would stop me selling it to my brother for a fiver??? If I sold the bungalow for the estimated value and it cost £600 a week for a care home that would only give my mum just over 2 years care then what happens? Also where does the line get drawn between social care and health care. Health care is free social care is not. I think this is where the conflicting views come in My mum and dad worked hard all thier lives and raised their family in a council house. When my dad died the 3 kids managed to help mum move as she felt so terrible living in the same house that she had spent with her husband for 25 years. We managed to raise a depsoit and the eldest child became guarantor for a mortgage so my mum was then able to get herself a little bungalow. None of us or our children have been offered council houses and we have all had to work and get mortgages apart from one daughter that can not afford it and is living in private rented accomodation.

This has nothing to do with Council v private property! I dont discriminate between the two,my point is this. If you choose to live in a council property for whatever reason(I also know some people dont have a choice but some do)then fine,but why if someone buys their own house, (and sometimes it can be a huge drain on them) when and if they need help they have to sell their home in order to do it, to me thats wrong, 100%! we are encouraged to do well,earn money,buy a home and then they do this sort of thing, its not fair! i stand buy my opinion that the less you put in the more you get,this was not aimed in any shape or form at council housing, it was aimed in general at our society.

Thank you for that Patricia. Nobody, including Panorama mentioned this facility/option. the way they spoke was that the house is sold and all the money goes for care unless of course the patient dies and then it would be put to her estate.

YES GWYNNE I THINK WE ARE ALL TALIKNG AT CROSSED PURPOSES they have said all along that health care is free to all but it is the social care that costs. BUT where does the line get drawn between social and health care should be the question

I think anyone who pays FULL!contributions should be entitled to the same level of care, Council property or private!! If you dont pay full contributions then you should have to pay for some of the care yourself, if not why do we pay full contributions??

Roxanne there are some out there who haven't paid full contributions because they've had to take time off work for various reasons. Juliexx

Hi Julie, I can understand that:-)) But there are some people who do it out of choice,I know Ive seen and heard it, if you choose to pay less in then surely you cant expect to get the same out. If its health reasons then thats a different thing alltogether.