General Chat

Oh so true. How i wish that we had an effective and credible opposition party.
And how i wish that we had one in 2003 as well. Its the only thing to keep the corruption and self serving in check. This lot arent up to the job, not even close to it.

Sadly there does not seem to be any politician from any party or any country that would not sell the electorate down the swanee given half the chance,

Politicians are like the parasites that feed on the bodies of host animals,
You would like to get rid of them but you can't because you no you need them to survive

Roy

Well, yes, exactly. They werent so keen when they were doing the collections in bars in new york, were they. How times change.

But actually, there is no need to respect the laws of any country if they have a lower standard than our own. And there should, imho, not be any treaty with any country which keeps the death penalty, but thats another argument.

How many more rights and liberties are we willing to give up to help the government fight 'terror'? They got us in to it, dont expect me to give up my freedoms to get us out of it. Thats what i think, anyway!

Eldrick, You have several valid points but the problem with terrorism is that it is a very dark dirty world that they operate in and until the powers that be come up with a better solution to tackle this problem then we are stuck with it, as for the US his crime was against their law's and whether we like it or not we have to respect the law's of other democratic countries even if we don't fully agree with their penalties,

However, They the US have historically only ever got involved when it suits them? We for years suffered terrorism funded by US citizens, (How they changed when it affected them) then suddenly theirs a war on terror led by the US

Roy

What terrorists are these that have been tried and stayed in this country?

I do think, despite what anyone says, that we should keep our innocent until tried and proved guilty system. i repeat - if hes done something wrong, put him on trial. I can just imagine some english person in, say, an iranian prison for 8 years without trial on allegations of spying or terrorism.

Its a basic right of everyone to be told why they are in prison and to be given the opportunity to answer the allegations. Its our system, Its our prison and hes here in the uk. We should not roll over on our backs to appease the yanks and we should not use the yanks as an excuse to ride roughshod over a justice system that has taken centuries to establish. It stinks to high heaven. National security my bottom. Its as much national security as the kid looking for ufo reports is national security.

I still dont see how he can be blamed for fighting extradition to somewhere that condones torture, waterboarding and has the death penalty. Who wouldn't!

I agree with you Roy. he is hanging on hoping pehaps that he will be released. because he has been in prison so long.. or people will react and start something up to get him released.

He could have gone to American and faced the courts as innocent ? and been home. but there must be some reason he does not want to go.?he perfers to stay here.and remain in prison by the look of things.

look at the terriost who have been tried and stay in this country making all excues to stay here. they have appealed at all the courts and we cannot even get rid of them yet dont want them in this country because of the trouble they bring. is that right ?.

No,it is not acceptable, but that is the way the extradition laws stand at the moment; there is no compulsion for the requesting country (the USA in this case) to provide evidence that a person has commited a crime in or against their country.

Although Wikki states that the 2003 US/UK extradition treaty has been ratified by the US government, I have a suspicion that that is not quite correct -it is a very one sided agreement in favour of the USA.

The British Justice system is also flawed, until recently at least allowing terrorist suspects to be locked up without charge, or not being told what they are being charged with under UK law.

However, would the general public think it right that a charged murderer be allowed to walk the street for 2 years while the CPS prepares its case?

Holding suspects in custody while the extradition proceedings are put in place is presumably because they are deemed likley to incite or commit further 'crimes', or were a flight risk.

There is no catch-all answer.

I agree that the Extradition Act 2003, is questionable? but it is not true that it only works one way? it is wrong that no evidence is required,

But in the case of Babar Ahmad their is plenty of evidence to support his extradition and the reason for his extradition is simply because his crimes were aimed at the US,

To me it's sad that our political leaders and the courts both here and in the EU don't seem to be able to get their act together, this man should have had his case heard and dealt with within 3 month of him being charged/arrested and or indited for extradited, But i still say it was his call and people like that cannot be allowed to be free to continue pedaling their beliefs and risking the lives of innocent men women and children.

Roy

Of course it isn't right. There is no evidence in this country I cannot see why he has been held.

The USA "say" they have evidence, let's hear it then before he's extradited. And is this the same USA who refused to extradite escaped IRA terrorists? I really cannot understand why we are letting the USA dictate to us, given their record on harbouring suspected and convicted IRA terrorists.

Gwynne

So presumably you think its fine to have a person extradited without any evidence. Well, leaving that abhorrent thought aside, the question is why is a person in a uk prison for 8 years without any trial?

It beggars belief that anyone can say its his own fault! How many different ways is there to say that there is no evidence against him in this country and the yanks have not provided any for their allegations.

Obviously, i have to accept that most people seem to think that is fair and just and acceptable. Which actually saddens me but is no great surprise.

I remember the fuss about the injustice of a parking ticket being issued. But 8 years in prison without trial is fine, lol.

But surely this man is fighting to stay in Britian and not be exradited so he is holding up his time and that is why he is in prison for so long.?
does he think he stands a better chance in Britian to be found innocent ?when he could be guilty.?

And on what grounds do you base that tirade? Lol

For someone like him, the best place is in prison,l would'nt want him on the streets to continue planning and moving around the world .....the sooner the Americans get him the better!! The have alot of questions to ask him!!

jude

if he has been proved guilty, i missed the trial. Spying? Lol.

I repeat - the uk authorities have said there is no evidence against him in the uk. None. Zero. But he has been in a uk prison for 8 years.

What a sad, damning indictment that is on our so called justice system. And even sadder that so many people think it is acceptable!

He is English.

I am not getting at these people because they are Muslim,perish the thought ,i would say ,get rid of them if they were Jewish , German or Spanish if they were wanted for crimes in some other country where they have been connected to any terror cells of any nationality.
As regards charges ,this guy has been proved to be connected to islamic terror groups ,and is also wanted for spying .
I do not agree with the fella two months go being deported for selling batteries to another country which can be used for many purposes, or the removal of a teenager who is proved to have mental health problems, because he hacked into an American survailance site ,i am with you all on those daft American ideas.
The yanks can be over sensitive to many things that are not a threat to anyone.
My apologies to any Muslims who took this the wrong way ,i have quite a few muslim friends as well as other nationalities all of which so far as i am aware are solid nice people.
Fred. :-)

And he didnt spend 8 years in prison with no charge or trial either, which is the point i am making.

If you are all so against extradition to the US then what about this chap.
65 yrs old business man ...

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6542027-retired-business-man-setup-by-usa-agents-in-arms-to-iran-sting

and he isn't a muslim...

Exactly so. There is the smell of a sinister agenda here.

What worries me more to be honest is that extradition is also being used for non-terrorists, like the young man who has broken US copyright laws by streaming videos here ( where he has broken no law as far as I know ) . I suppose this is one of those times when one either has to accept the ruling for ALL, regardless of crime, or reject it for all ....

Sorry can't answer if anyone responds, off for eye test.