General Chat

USA certainly has an interest in Kony.....as others do.

He's being sought as we speak,I have just seen the CNN news report out here and looks like they are very eager to catch him.

Lets hope they do.

I agree we can agree to disagree on much.

My comment about it not being a new story; granted it is new to yourself and many others that I do not argue with but it is an old story for want of a better phrase. Many of these famous people coming on board now really should have been more aware of the situation already, all they had to do was watch the world news for the last few years.

One of my points was that my child at 11 yrs old is too young to be exposed to this in it's full context, and a few of you have disagreed. How is this different from what Kony is doing himself to some extent ? I quote an article from 23rd Sept 2011 Portland Maine. Students at Lyman Moore Middle school Portland were having an audience with members of the Invisible children group (those that made the video). Cassidy Myers of this group stated "Kony targets kids who are between the ages of 8 and 13, so they're young enough to brainwash, but old enough to carry guns"
My son falls in the middle of this age group, and yet you think it is fine for people in authority to show him the video in it's full context without informing the parents. Are they as influential adults not in danger of possible brain washing children too, and not telling the parents. They never even suggested the kids might want to discuss it with their parents when they got home.
What age in your view is old enough to view all of the worlds horrors ?
Innocents of youth should still be available for children in free countries, and with a well rounded education appropriate to their age once they grow up to be free thinking adults hopefully they will do whatever they can to change all the wrongs in this world.

Again I do not for one minute think Kony should not be stopped as soon as possible, nor others in similar positions.

But a whole load of education - or so called education - is indoctrination. Religious education, history as it used to be taught (no idea how they teach it now to be fair), cultural things - all can be construed as brainwashing. I would be the first to agree that children should be taught to think critically and left to make their own minds up when they are old enough to be able to assemble all the facts and arguments.

I could possibly be swayed to a certain degree by the argument that 11 year olds dont necessarily need to know the full horrors of the world. But there is a vast, enormous difference between what Kony is doing and what the teachers are doing. I think the main thing in favour is to make children in general aware of how incredibly lucky they are to have been born into a stable (ish) western society and to think and act accordingly when it comes to treating others less fortunate and lucky than they are. Just pointing out that they have the benefit of education and the consequent ability to make a success of their lives instead of merely struggling to exist is a lesson that cannot be over-valued. I dont think a child is ever too young to learn those values and lessons. And if they are momentarily upset by being told and shown the reality of life for children of their age elsewhere, I would come down on the side of it being a useful lesson well learnt. Given good family support they will get over the upset very quickly. After all, life is full of upsets till the day you die.

We all tend to forget just how lucky we are to live in a sheltered consumer driven society where poverty and hardship has a different meaning to third world poverty and hardship. Our standards of hardship would be utter luxury beyond imagination for a huge proportion of the world. You can never be too young to learn that.

I agree that with good parenting the children will have no long term problems, mine is fine after a good night sleep. This is more down to the children not actually getting what the teacher thought they should because it was way over their heads and/or not taught correctly.
The problem is the teachers didn't feel the parents needed telling, and whilst I am not seriously saying they would brainwash my child they have withheld information that was not normal day to day schooling. They feel they have to inform us each and every time they hold a lock down practice because the children experienced a frightening event, but not when they view dead bodies and hear about sex slaves and parents getting murdered.

I totally agree with your last comment about never being too young to learn how good we've got it, but all in an age appropriate manner. My 16 yr old can handle an awful lot more than my 13 yr old, who in turn can handle more than my 11 yr old.

I agree with Caroline .....................


this is an "old" story, that was in our media several years ago, but then disappeared. Now this movie, and the new social media, have propelled it very much into the forefront of the news ........ and THAT is a very good thing.

But one does have to ask, where were all these people last year, and the year before and the year before that?

Stories, in print and on tv, have appeared over those years, mentioning the childrens army, mentioning the rehabilitation of the boy soldiers, mentioning the rehabilitation of the sex slaves ...... those last 2 within the last 6 months. It's all been out there ..... only most people have paid no attention!

One must be very careful though ....... because there are serious "allegations" about the group that have made this movie.



As far as the school ................ I can see where Caroline is coming from. In my humble opinion, the school should have notified the parents, preferably beforehand, that this movie was going to be shown in its entirety ................... and offered the parents the chance to take their child out of the classroom.

OR they should have found a way of showing a milder version to the children.


I am dumbfounded when I listen to my daughter and her husband. My daughter was raised to watch or listen to at least one major news programme a day, and to read the newspaper. She married a man who never read a newspaper or watched the news. They do not have their TV hooked up .... they use it to watch dvds. They do not have a radio. They do not have a newspaper.

Now I will mention something, and she may have seen it on her computer news ................ or if it is a "bad" story, especially one concerning children, she will say "we don't watch anything like that"

Yet, they obviously do pay some attention ....... they will send donations immediately to a natural disaster


I fear their 2 year old will end up a sheltered child!




sylvia

A comment on the general point about parents being allowed to withdraw children from lessons of which they don't approve.

It's my experience (as a now-retired teacher) that children will find out all they want to know about lessons from which they were withdrawn by their parents in the playground later or, nowadays, from Google.

And what they hear from classmates may well be a load of nonsense invented as a wind up. Parents used to be allowed to withdraw their children from sex education classes, I'm not sure of the situation now. The withdrawn children later pestered the others about what they has seen or been told and weren't always given an accurate version. I'd far rather my son saw the lesson and heard from qualified teachers than his classmates.

I watch the early evening news and very recently there was mention of sex slaves from Eastern Europe in Birmingham and scenes of horror from Syria. I didn't see anything in the youtube video that was worse than anything I've seen on the early evening news.

And I did already know about it but welcome the fact it's reaching a wider audience, from whatever source.

Gwynne

:-\

Its nice to be able to discuss something in an articulate manner :-)

I know the stories arent new in the sense that they have briefly surfaced in the past and were there to find if you looked, but it was never exactly headlines. Let me make a comparison. An idiot shot and killed one person and wounded two others in the north east 2 years ago. He went into hiding in a village in northumberland. Press from all over the world descended. It was headline news all over the world and the media frenzy was probably one of the single most unedifying spectacles i have ever encountered. There cannot have been a single person in the world who had access to a tv who wasnt exposed to the debacle. It still rumbles on.

Estimates vary, but this individual in uganda has been responsible for at least 30,000 deaths. Probably many more. Rwanda was over 800,000 - more than the combined total of uk and american dead in ww2. My point is this. Prior to this film going viral, the name raoul moat was know to ever person in the uk. How many knew joseph kony or Theoneste bagosora? The more people who are killed, the more people turn a blind eye and the less news coverage it warrants.

As for serious allegations, i dont think any of the allegations are any more than could be levelled at any other charity. Many of them seem to stem from people like that crazy american rush limbaugh, who claims that kony and the lords resistance army are christians and that obama has sent american troops to kill christians who are fighting against islam. So beware of criticism from the lunatic american bible belt idiots!

The world is a wicked place, I'm shocked this had gone unnoticed or ignored by the world for so long. :-|

I too have shared this on FB, & my yr8 daughter got shown this in class one day last week too, so even the school is helping to highlight this.

Eldrick, if it had been white children being massacred, then it would have reached the worlds radar far sooner & dealt with.

Seeing that it hasn't, smacks to me of western countries turning a blind eye to third world type countries ways & rituals (sort of out of sight, out of mind) & ignoring this atrocity as being part of "cultural life" & choosing not to get involved.

*Packs bag for a GR holiday* :-D

ps, daughter did feel upset about the video, late at night before bed. But she is sensitive & got upset over the holocaust film she saw in school too.
I certainly have no problems with my children learning about the worlds issues. They are our future, they need to learn the truth to become well informed adults. And to be honest, most children use FB or YouTube so are likely to see the film over time anyhow.

Eldrick - I was just thinking the same thought, everyone is showing their maturity on here thankfully.

Whilst agreeing with many of the before mentioned comments from all, I ask again " what age in your view is old enough to view all of the worlds horrors ?"

My kids are not angels by any means, but their viewing rights to FB or YouTube is restricted both at home and school and their friends houses. They do watch the news coverage every day but the early edition. We discuss over dinner every day (yes we're old fashioned we eat together at a table) the current events albeit sometimes in a waterdown version.

Do none of you feel that maybe just maybe some of the evils of this world might be avoided if more children had been allowed to be children for their whole childhood......just like with Kony child soldiers? Think it doesn't apply to the Western world ???.......Bulger killers watched horror movies when far too young to do so.......for one example

Yes, but I think it is also useful to teach children the difference between the real horrors and the fictional ones of video games and movies.

I think 10 years old or thereabouts is perfectly fine for introducing children to this sort of thing. Lets face it, from a much younger age they are exposed, whether we like it or not, to fake violence and horror. It is useful, in my opinion, to let them know that there really is abject evil in this world and that in turn teaches not to glorify or revel in manufactured violence.

It raises an interesting point, however. Do we try to keep children in a state of innocence for our own gratification or for their own good? You can argue either way. We routinely lie to chldren about fantastic things like santa clause, fairies, easter bunnies, halloween and whatever. Would a child REALLY be harmed by not having these myths taught to them? I dont think they would, but the parents would certainly miss out . Not able to say 'you should have seen the look on little Kylies face when she found santa had brought her a brand new blackpod 5' is denying the parent the pleasure, not the child. There's nothing wrong with giving presents to children at any time, but I've never seen the point in using a manufactured victorian myth to provide a reason for doing so. But thats another argument!

Setting my cynicism aside for one moment, historically we tend to try to insulate children more and more from the world around them. Compare now to 100 years ago. Children were working from their early teens, many doing hard manual labour. They became streetwise much earlier than nowadays and were accustomed to reality. Even I can remember being taken to see a deceased relative lying in her coffin prior to the funeral. It was expected and was undeserving of comment. Who would do that to a 10 year old now?

So what I'm saying is really this. Do we not insulate children more for our own fears rather than the reality of how little harm is actually caused. Obviously it's a very subjective issue and it's up to each parent to decide what is appropriate for their particular offspring, but I think that preserving innocence is not necessarily always a good thing. But education, done properly, is.

Again in a twisted way we agree !
Education is good.....in an approapriate manner. My point has always been ,fine tell my 11 yr old but not in the entirety of this video.
When I was a child we were not allowed to attend funerals, not due to my parents wishes but the church didn't allow children under 12 if memory serves me right. My parents though did tell us so and so had died and all that entails, as I do to my children when the event has occurred.
Yes children in the past have grown up much earlier than today BUT they were still not subjected to all of the violence that is available today. Even in my long distant childhood TV did not show all the blood and gore it does today routinly. Victorian children may have been shoved up chimneys but most of them wouldn't have seen piles of dead bodies....one or two at a time maybe.
I think we all agree though to get back to what you started with....Joseph Kony is an evil man.

To be honest, the images on that video are rather less shocking than many of the images on the news, even the images on some of the charity appeal adverts are more distressing.

The important thing in letting a child watch this 'kind of thing' is that it is talked through, yes things will still be upsetting, my own view is possibly that the school could have notified parents...but then again a child of 11 ( and I'm basing this on son) should be able to say to the parent 'I saw this and it upset me' when they get home and talk it through there? But perhaps if they have never been allowed to watch the news at home they wouldn't know how to approach the parent!

I think as with most things it's a fine balance between letting your child be a child ( in big favour of that) and being aware that life is not good for everyone and that in small ways we can all do something to change that?

I wouldn't have let son watch a horror movie at that age ( a sustained hour and a half of horror) but a half hour news programme on what is happening in the world that is horrific AND, most importantly, what is being done to try and change that, yes .

As I'd already stated RamblingRose my child does watch the news and he did approach me. Other children did not approach their parents until the nightmares started that night.
The school are always sending notes home about this event that might have upset the child or that event, but there wasn't even a headsup in the evening homework e mail along the lines of you may want to talk to your child about this subject.
I question how many 11 yr olds even if they have been more exposed to every day bad news events, truely watched that video and FULLY understood it ?

Caroline, to be fair I shouldn't really comment on what I would find acceptable for a school to show or not show, as (most people on here know) I home schooled so it has always been my decision as to how world events are approached.

I'm wondering if the schools did enough to explain or discuss the movie with the children before or after showing it in class?

I do believe that children should know about the world, and all its good and bad things

........... but there has to be a way to explain things so that a child does not get nightmares.

I know that there are parents who want their children to watch the news, and discuss world events .... that's what we did with our daughter from a young age (she's now 37). But as I said earlier, she and her husband now seem to insulate themselves about "bad" things, don't have a tv or daily newspaper, and I do worry that they will insulate their son as he grows older. She was watching the early evening news with us from the age of about 6, will they do the same with him?

But there are also other parents who do not want their children to be shown such movies ..... in fact, many, like Limbaugh, either do not believe it is happening, or believe a different spin is put on it. How do you handle those parents?


Should a note have been sent home on the previous day to say this movie was being shown??


I taught biology in an all-girls grammar school in the UK back around 1965. Part of the "job" for the biology staff was to teach human reproduction ........ we did that in stages, age appropriate, in year 1, 3, and 5.

The year ones (age 11-12) were taught about their bodies, menstruation, how babies were conceived and born, in February ... just 6 months after starting at the school.

Parents of girls in that year were sent letters the previous week to say what was going to happen, and if they did not want us to be the first instructors ....... "please do it yourself before next Thursday"

Some were only too happy to have the "job" done by someone else. Others wanted to do it their own way.

The parents were told that no child would be excused from the class for any reason ......... because there were parents, even then, who did not want their child "indoctrinated" and encouraged to have sex, wanting to keep them "innocent".

I don't know whether there were any kids kept off school that week ............ I don't remember having any missing from my classes.


and ........... it was on the exam paper



just an example from my past on how a tricky situation was dealt with 40+ years ago.



sylvia

Hi Sylvia
Today they still in our school at least give approx one week notice of sex education, and it is gradually increased year by year -age appropriate. You can if you wish withdraw your child, but as was previously mentioned on here the little dears will still find out in the playground afterwards from their friends anyway, so in my experience those parents that don't want their child taught this by the school will teach it themselves before hand.
We are giving at least 2 days notice in writing before a lock down drill.
We are informed by phone call the same day if a lock down happened for real - mainly because it always seems to happen at dismisal time and you can't pick your kids up or expect them home at the normal time !
We were given a written headsup when a class room asst. who had only come in twice died suddenly in a road accident, in case the children were upset.
From what I can gather from my son and the other children there was no forewarning of this video, and no followup in the class afterwards, just straight onto the next subject. One other class did the video also and they had to go home and write an essay on it. From what those parents have said they could clearly see their children had not grasped the content of the video at all. They had to explain it to their children, and without the teacher knowing this had happened in most if not all cases, the teacher took the work in the next morning and never took it up. Only later in the day when the phone calls started coming in did he understand the children hadn't got it.
I still say this video was not aimed at 11 yr olds, the teachers could have talked about the subject in age approprate terms/words rather than taking the easy option of shoving a video on and taking a break.
I don't insulate my children from bad things as such, I try to expose them slowly appropriate to their age.....but with older siblings of course he sometimes sees things he shouldn't. Early evening news is totally different to late evening news for instance. Just for the record we don't have cable etc so he isn't exposed to many of the channels which offer blood and gore, nor does he have video games which are overtly violent, nor on line game playing. So yes in some peoples minds I am too narrow minded maybe, but as far as poverty etc is concerned as I previously said he has been exposed...daily if you take into account beggers on the street...and no I don't give beggers money but I will give them a sandwich and a hot drink !!

As is often said, it is a very subjective issue and parents must deal with things the way they think best - that is what parental responsiblity is all about.

I know its off topic, but I permit myself a smile when I hear that schools give the option for parents to take their children out of sex education but the morning religious collective worship thing is compulsory by law. lol - as a culture we are so hung up about sex - yet it is a basic human instinct. It does make me laugh to see how the very mention of it sends some people into a foaming apoplectic frenzy of righteousness. Definitely one of the unwanted legacies of Victoria!

Beggars and poverty dont necessarily go together, a great deal of that is self inflicted or by choice even. Real poverty is toddlers scrounging scraps of mouldy food from landfills, drinking filthy water from puddles and not having access to education or basic human needs. Poverty is watching your children die through malnutrition and disease. It's carrying children hundreds of miles to escape a war. We dont have poverty in the UK. We might have hardship, but not poverty. Not by any real definition of the word. I personally think that children should be exposed to that from the earliest age possible. It should, IMHO, be part of education the same as the three R'S, to reinforce how lucky we are and how by sheer accident we were born into a society that provides for us.

Personally, I dont give anything at all to beggars. I've seen too many of them that are alcoholics, drug addicts and general deadbeats that are where they are by their own choice. Hard, possibly and maybe even more than that. Maybe some of them are genuine cases, but so be it. Anyone who does give them anything has my admiration, but no more!

Eldrick, parents *can* withdraw their children from assembly and from RE lessons.

Gwynne

Yes, I know, but its still law that there must be an act of collective worship each day. Thats what I'm getting at!

Its something of an anachronism the way we treat these subjects in schools. Sex education is mandatory for even primary school ages, which is fine by me. But it only came into being in, I think, 2008? Maybe someone can correct me on that. And parents can take their children out of it. Why? What is the difference between that and maths and Geography? Can those subjects be opted out of? I doubt it very much!