General Chat

OOh -I'm feeling very smug!!
When my grand daughter was about 5, she,my 2 daughters and I went to Portsmouth on the train. (about an hour away).
We did what I always used to do with my own children when they were small - played games - count the cows, spot the trainer/shoeon the track when the train was at a station, and 'I spy' (the occurence when my eldest, aged 10 was so pleased that no-one could guess 'O' that she shouted the word 'Orgasm' (instead of organism) at the top of her voice is really best forgotten -but I won't/can't forget it!! LOL)
When grand daughter was hungry, the inevitable marmite sandwich was produced.

Towards the end of the journey,a lady came up and complimented us- she said it was lovely (and unusual) to see a family so 'in tune'!!!!

As one who doesn't drive, I take the opportunity of using journeys on public transport as a form of education. Sit at the top of a double decker and admire thatched rooves, guttering, and gardens,or even bedroom decor!! Trains are equally good for the fascinating hobby of looking in others' houses!! LOL
It takes little effort and can entertain a child (or nosey adult) for the whole journey.

Let's face it .............. if anyone feels that they need to take their children out to a restaurant in order to teach them how to behave properly then they have already failed..

Table manners are taught nowhere but at home.

That said .................. those of us who have taken the road of raising children have undertaken life's most impossible, yet essential, task.

My view ............... and it is only my somewhat aged view, is that children must be extended the warmest welcome in every restaurant ................. until such time that their behaviour outstays their welcome.

We so seldom eat out, that I was unaware of adults only restaurants.

Ooh don't get me started on children in buses. Not all of them of course, a lady infront of us yesterday had three children with her. One in the buggie who she was tickling and made him or her laugh, a tot sitting next to her who was very excited but very good and a little boy about five who sat across the bus on the side seats and was really well behaved. She talked to them and kept them amused and didn't go on her phone once. They were a pleasure. We have another local family parents no more than children themselves, Mum and 2 or 3 children sit at the back of the bus (a double decker - downstairs), Dad sits at the front with little one in a buggy. The adults hold a conversation across the bus!! Which is always full.

I was recently out for a meal with friends, and across the restaurant a large mixed age party arrived for what was obviously a celebration meal.
To begin with everything was fine, but then the youngsters got bored (before the main course was served lol) and started playing with the balloons, hitting them to each other and running after them.
Instead of asking them to stop, or at least be careful as the poor waitresses played dodge-the-kids, adults joined in the game!!
There were a few tuts that evening!!

But it's not just restaurants - anyone who travels by bus must have seen the mums park their pushchairs, and then sit engrossed on their mobile phones while littleun screeches and screams for attention. No effort is made to quieten the child, and apart from annoyance to passengers I wonder about the safety factor with distraction to drivers.

My children were by no means perfect, but I suppose the fact that we had to fold buggys and sit with the child on our laps meant they had our attention, and if they were unsettled we would at least make an attempt to distract them.
And meals on a tray in front of the tv were for a treat, a bribe (yep, I used to lol) or when they were poorly.

Agree Merlin.

Another thing is that in the "old days" when smoking was allowed in these places there were far fewer children ... One downside of the smoking ban maybe? LOL

Jill

The trouble is (To my mind) that not many houses have proper Dining rooms now, (Some houses don,t even have Dining Tables) they just eat off trays watching the Tele,( So kids have no Idea how to behave) and I think its the Parents fault for not teaching them how to behave at table nomatter where it is.As for Burger King ,Pizza Hut etc. Yuk.**M**.

This thread has brought a few memories back!

I have to say that I cannot abide screeching children - in a restaurant, cafe, anywhere really. I think it's girls who tend to screech more than boys but drives me nuts.

A local pub/restaurant a few years ago now had to complain to one family as the child was crawling around on the floor. The place was relatively small and the waiter would not have had a chance ... so dangerous. Equally dangerous if they are running around generally when there is hot food, hot drinks etc around. Who'd be first to complain if one of the little darlings were scalded?

It's funny that around Europe you often see large family groups eating in restaurants (particularly on Sundays). The whole family from babies through to gr grandma. All the kids perfectly well behaved and none of the adults over-noisy. Such a pleasure. And such a change from some of the behaviour we see here in England on a regular basis.

We tend to eat in child-free restaurants wherever possible by the way!! It's far less stressful.

Jill

When we were little, eating out was for the well heeled. But at home, we were taught how to behave at the table, to sit still, keep our elbows in, and not interrupt the grown ups.

When we went out as a family for my sixty fifth birthday, we asked that my two youngest grandchildren could be babysat. We had watched them with growing horror packing food into their mouths, climbing on the table, etc, at home. Because they were not invited, DIL threw a wobbly, and son had to come on his own. His sour mood (and doubtless the row from his wife), ruined my meal with other family members.

We only eat out on birthdays and anniversaries, so why should badly behaved children - who should be in bed, spoil a special event?

Nowadays youngsters are also noisy in Church, and the Mothers tend to ignore them.

I pity their adolescence.

Cookie, like your children,mine could be horrors at home -but that was acceptable- they weren't angels.
Their food was also prepared from 'scratch'- home made burgers etc. Squash without additives. They didn't visit a McD's until they were about 12- and took themselves. They were disappointed in the burgers-apparently mine were better (and I hatecooking!)LOL
Additives came home to me when I bought my youngest (then about 4)some jelly babies, just before we went to the doctors.
She was uncontrollable, totally obnoxious - and a stranger to me.
I looked at the packet and couldn't believe the numberof 'E's' in there!
My children were only allowed coke on their birthdays-and I had a bottle of wine to counter-attack the response/affect it had on them!!

Diet definitely has an effect on the behaviour of children. I did a thesis on children and diet as part of my degree in education.
This was in my 40's- after my children had grown up-well they were past the 'additives'and behaviour phase and on to the 'alcohol' and behaviour phase LOL

We have those 'wagon trains' of pushchairs in our Sains*urys cafe too Motowngal. How do all these mummies afford it, meals and expensive coffees.....I thought families were hard up these days. Bowls of chips being stuffed in babies and tots, it does make me mad, but that's another subject. We have children using the restaurant as a racetrack too, up one side of you and then down the other screeching their heads off. Last week they were hanging onto a disabled woman's wheelchair to get around the corners!!! Did mummy notice/care ....no!! Then rolling on the floor and meddling with the cutlery with mucky hands......disgraceful and old enough to know better. If restaurants are to turn into playgrounds we may as well call them that.

Hello Ann - yes I agree with what you say. Not a parent myself but from what I've seen the better behaved ones are the ones who get the attention plus the discipline

Like many others, I can't abide either loud children or adults in restaurants - and the worst is the parent constantly shouting at a child who is intent on ignoring them.
When my children were at home, every meal was eaten at the table.
One daughter now has 3 children - the same applies to them.
They even have to ask to get down from the table when they've finished!
Oh - and they're not allowed to walk around eating.

18 months ago, this daughter got married at a 'posh' hotel
She had 2 children then, aged 7 and 20 months old.
Both managed to sit properly at the table (though the younger managed to fall asleep over his lunch LOL) - but even though he was tired, he didn't make a fuss.
Having said that, whenever I took my children,and whenever my grandchildren are taken to restaurants,they are never offered the 'childs'menu -experience has taught us that these usually contain additives.
My daughter'shusband is head chef in 'posh'hotel. He never offers a child's menu. They have smaller portions or a variety of the adult food at a cheaper price, or can have pasta/spaghetti.
He knows only too well how additives affect his own children -and eating out should be a food experience for everyone- including children!!!

If a child couldnt behave at home then they wouldnt be taken out to eat be it Maccy'd or Pizza Hut.

Some children do behave at home ,have lovely table manners ,yet become much to the embarresment of their parent/s little horrors who just defy any plead to behave when they are out in places where others are having a meal.

"To be fair, some parents have children with learning difficulties who can be unpredictable and at times impossible to control quickly"

You are very right IslandInTheSnow

I know several families with special needs children, and to look at them they look the same as any other child.

Now I know at least one of those families go out to restaurants with the kids, and are subject to tuts & sometimes loud whispers and are judged as being a naughty kid & terrible parents.

The truth is,their child has complex learning difficulties, its often difficult to keep him focussed for long. When they go out they do so as a family, as sitters are on the thin side because of his needs. Its either that or they dont go out, which would be a shame for their elder child .

Uggers, isn't the clue in your comment "who was beautifully behaved sat there crayoning with all her mum's attention "

Isn't it the children to whom the parents pay attention that behave properly? We had lunch in Wetherspoons Cheltenham today, Yes, we accept it is not an upmarket restaurant and normally on a friday there would be no children. However, today must be an inset day for the area and there was a Mother in there with three older children. I think 2 were twins aged about 10 and one aged about 8. Now they were not running around and were not being really 'naughty' but they were loud, shouting at each other all the time so it was difficult to have a normal conversation. Mum hushed them once then gave up and went outside for a fag. If she had stayed in with them and kept them quiet it would be fine but they seemed to completely ignore her. I think it is all part of today's society where children rule the roost in many homes.

PP

You say you believe that children should be taken to restaurants regularly to take note of the surroundings and understand how to behave naturally.

So how does that work?

My children were taught how to behave at the meal table at home and in company. They did not need to be taken to restaurants 'regularly' to learn how to behave. From their first trip to a 'restaurant', more likely a cafe, they behaved themselves.
I should imagine the majority of GR posters were not able to afford to take their children to restaurants regularly but I'll bet those kids knew how to behave when they did.

Island

The company I worked for also has a outlet which does not allow children under 14 only in the garden area, and as far as I know there are no childrens meals available.
I worked there in 2005 and I just googled it and as far as I can see it is still adults only

jax

Behaviour begins in the home, our gchildren now in their twenties and they were often with us without their parents, we could take them anywhere and they never let us or their parents down.

PP
I have to disagree. It's the parents responsibilty to teach their children how to behave, not other diners!