General Chat

Good evening to you all

I would like your views on this.

At one of my local churches, the priest/vicar, etc produced a leaflet, outlining about giving money to the church.

This money is not to assist community or help groups;
only the church.

In the leaflet, it stated:

"it should be the top priority, even in severe financial hardship to give to and support the church".

There were then calculations on the minimum that should be donated each week.

By the way, the area concerned is one where there is high unemployment and poverty. The neighbouring districts are more wealthy.

What do you think about what was said in the leaflet?

What are your views, etc on this subject?

Thank you.

Best wishes.

This sounds like a Catholic church, but sometimes this money supports the clergy. Ask how much the individual church has to pay the church heirarchy as a tithe. Sometimes it is a large amount for a small community. Our church is always thinking of new ways to raise money, with displays on various subjects, raffles, cake sales, all sorts of things. Has raised enough to have awindow repaired by stonemasons, rehang the bells and have a proper stair to the belfry. Are now collecting for organ repairs and another window want doing. Church goes back to 1300's.

Dear Jean

No it is a protestant church.

In its mission statement, it says it has a foward thinking approach to
being a christian!

The problem is and I will have to say it, is that the church is supporting too many bishops, other clergy and all the expenses.

Ordinary people who would like to attend church are put off by
things like this.

I could add more but it is too early in the evening.

Best wishes to you Jean
x

My belief is that you should NEVER ask for money. Ask God in prayer and tell him that you are in need and it shall be given.

So the church has double standards if its asking for money in my opinion and I would have no hesitation in telling the vicar that.

A very good book to read about God providing is "Gods Smuggler". I have read this book many times and every time it amazes me the power of prayer.

There also mentioned in the Bible about giving a tenth of your earnings to the church, some say this should be the exact amount, others believe you should give what you can afford.

Not much help there am I Elizabeth. :) In one way I am agreeing with you and in another I am saying what God has said to do.

This is my belief, and may contradict others beliefs.

Tina x

I think I would agree with Tina there - I haven't been to church in years, but my initial reaction is that, especially at the moment when things are so uncertain financially, it is a bit out of touch for the church quoted to be making a statement like the one Elizabeth quoted. There are a lot of people who are probably struggling just to feed their families - I'm sure the last thing they'd want to hear is that their priority is to give to the church.

A jumble sale to raise funds is one thing, but a letter like that - which sounds like it's not far off presenting someone with an invoice - just doesn't seem right.

There might well be genuine reasons for the parish needing the money but I'm not sure that implying that a certain amount is expected based on whatever it's based on is the way to get it.

It takes £2,000 per week to keep my church open. This is for gas/water/electricy bills (churches take some heating) and also for repairs maintenance etc.




On top of that, most C of E churches have to pay their Parish Share (used to be called Quota) to their diocese. This is used to help poorer churches, and to help the dioceses pay their way.

Our Parish Share is around £35,000 per year.



Our church has quite a bit of outreach into the community and those in the community want the church open for baptisms, weddings and funerals but it's the regulars who are keeping those doors open.



It's a sad fact that many churches are struggling for money. It certainly isn't because there are too many clergy - quite the reverse in fact.




Clergy wages (stipends) are paid from a central source in London - The Church Commissioners. Likewise, all clergy pensions are paid from a central source too.




It's a bit of an urban myth about the wealth of the C of E.




Yes, I do believe in the power of prayer but I also have to face reality.

A church can't actually make communicants pay but I don't see any problem with them asking for it. Everything costs.

However I much prefer to see churches actively trying to raise funds rather than guilt tripping people into donating. I never put money in the plate because I'm not happy with the way my church wastes of money on schemes.

Don't forget churches do have an income from weddings, funerals and so on.

The Church HAS to have income, to exist........
your handful of small change doesn't go far.......donations must keep pace with the reality of the modern worlds finances......

just think,

you would expect to pay to enjoy the use of a health club, football club, or ANY recreational activity.......

Bob

ps what I would object to......is being told how much I was expected to contribute, on a regular basis.....

There are set fees paid for marriages and funerals yes, but hardly mega bucks.

However, even though the collection plates may be put out at these events, I have often seen them left empty or with just a few coppers in despite there having been 100+ in the congregation.


Some churches have few funerals and even less weddings......what of them?



The vicar who officiates at 100 marriages is paid just the same as the one who only does 10.



Actively raising funds is commendable and we all do it, but it can get very, very tiring for the stalwarts.

I think there is a difference to people putting their hands in their pockets to give what they can afford to being told the amount they should be putting in. It is almost like taxing in which case the whole community should contribute, and I can see that going down like a lead balloon.

Tina x

I suppose if churches can't pay their own way, they have to close. Sad but practical. I expect the Church is like most institutions - too much money at the top and not spread around fairly or taking enough care of its poorer parts.

Yes, it's so sad to see a church close and the faithful are devasted because they have tried so hard to keep it open, but sometimes..................!

Well said Cynthia on everything you have said. I to believe in the power of prayer and when a whole church prays over their giving God will touch hearts and the giving increases, but of course it depends on the individual as to how to respond to what God is telling them, plus I have to wonder how many folk actually ask God what he wants them to give!

God wants a cheerful giver and from my experience the very cheerful givers have always been those that have very little, yet they often give more than those with high incomes.

Let me share something that happened to me years ago. We were having a series of sermons on giving (not just money giving) and when we got to the money one the vicar asked the whole church to go home and pray about their giving. I felt there was no need for me as I gave more then 10%, wait for it I only earnt £5 a week from childminding and gave £1. But pray I did and the Lord made me remember the child benefit I received, I said Lord how can I give 10% of that, its for the children, clothes, school trips, activities in the holidays etc. and besides my husband (who wasn't a Christian at the time) was out of work and things were tough, our daughter about to change to high school and needed completely kitting out as she was growing so fast, she needed new shoes every 5 weeks and being very tall and very slim the normal shops didn't have school clothes to fit her.
I ended saying ok Lord, I will put 10% of the Child Benefit away each week in a purse and if in 6 months time I haven't needed it for the children I will gladly put it in the collection. Well before the 6 months were up I found I had got my daughter everything she needed and more besides and I always had enough, I kept a record of how much the child benefit was and how much I had spent, and when I eventually worked it all out I found I had spent more than I had in, I haven't a clue where the extra came from all I know was I always had enough cash, and never touched the 10% I put away each week.
At the end of the day we should be responsible about our giving, after all we need to pay the bills, and the last thing God wants is for us to have the gas, electric turned off, or loose the house.

Joseanne - that's a wonderful story and I've heard of this sort of thing happening so many times - it's so fantatic when that happens and it all boils down to ......................faith.


Hi Alice, no offence caused. I know what you're saying and there are many 'house' churches springing up.


Many of our old churches were built when large crowds demanded large buldings and also because it was somewhere 'special' where worshippers could be together. We've inherited these buldings and we're trying to look after them.

I once queried the very ornate old churches but was enlightened with the fact that in the very distant past, to the humble person, it was like stepping into heaven and so far removed from their ordinary life that it became somewhere wonderful - awe inspiring and breathtaking.

One's depth of faith is a personal thing, but the faith is meant to be shared with others.

Is the church trying to encourage people to attend or discourage them???

I don't go to church and something like that would only make me stay away if I considered going, which I'm not.

As for weddings, christenings and funerals. I'm not married and won't get married in church if I do ever get married. My children are not christened and when I die I'll go straight to the crem and not church.

I don't use the church and I have better things to spend my money on. Then there's always the fact that I don't like anyone telling me I have to do something, if you get what I mean.

Have'nt read any of this thread, therefore, not at all influenced by any other view... Is'nt the 'Church' fairly wealthy?..I always believed that they were... Any donations made to the church should be then passed on to their needy communities as far as I'm concerned..

on Joseanne`s point about gas , electricity , food etc -did anyone see Secret Millionaire -that young boy had no gas , electricity , carpets , a chair or food I thought she would have helped him out.

I think it is very sad that churches have to ask their parisioners for financial help to maintain the fabric of the church. I lived in a Somerset village and served on the Parish Church Council and we were forever trying to think of ways to raise money for necessary repairs to the village church.

Across the road from the church was a huge rectory and large gardens - empty for quite a few years as the village did not have a resident vicar but share one with other local villages. The Church of England decided to sell said property and it went for something like £200,000.00 - and not one penny of that money went towards the church and it's upkeep! Yes, the Church of England is very rich and owns lots of land across the country - but if they are not helping to maintain their own churches, then why should we?

On the other hand, it is our heritage. Most churches in England were built with the generosity of rich landowners, and it is our ancestors, the carpenters, stone masons, etc etc that helped to build them. I am not a believer in any god but I can see the beauty and craftsmanship that has gone into our old churches and it saddens me to see them falling apart.

Maybe the powers that be should slap conservation/preservation orders on the old churches and make the Church of England cough up.

I was given a wonderful book last Christmas - it is sold for the benefit of The Friends of Somerset Churches and Chapels, whose funds are distributed so that historic places of worship within the county can remain open and in use. In 10 years they raised (by various means) £258,000 which was given to 139 individual buildings - well done them!

The churches were build and paid for by the people, for the people - and I guess the Church of England thinks it is up to the people to maintain them. Religion seems to me to be quite a good money making scheme - maybe it is time for the churches to become privatised. lol

Surely it's a tradition that, if you 'belong' to a religion you pay a tithe?
In England, in agricultural areas, it used to be 10% of the village 'income' - ie 10% of the crop - hence 'Harvest Festival' - a celebration of the crops - and if they were good the church benefited!
Jews, Moslems, Mormons, even Hindus have a tithe. The % of the income varies. In HInduism it's what you can afford, in Mormonism, it's 10%.
Goes with the territory really.

As for the church having a lot of money - they all do. Here in Winchester there are some fantastic houses left empty most of the time - they're there for visiting Bishops!
Winchester has a vast see, owns an enormous amount of land and churches, but I bet the churches within the see have to pay a certain amount of their income to the cathedral.
In times gone by, even churches owned a lot of land and buildings.
My g x 3 grandfather bought a new house (two up two down terrace) leasehold in Southampton in 1840. The lease was owned by St Mary's church, as they owned the land the builder built the house on.
This house was bombed in 1939 - a year before the lease was up.
Grandad was told the house wasn't habitable and got £6 compensation from the church - who then proceeded to rent the house out!!!

i can remember as a child the collection plate coming round,mum always gave us money to put in the plate,and i also remember the little white envelopes given to the church every month,and that was the 60s.x