Genealogy Chat

Hi

I am looking for more information about this man - he was my 3great grandfather. Brief biographical information, which I have not yet been able to confirm with official records, just by my family history/stories. I have confirmed his name and Ellen the death records of their daughter Ellen May Middleton

Birth - 17 Aug. 1799 Marsden, Durham, England
Death 30 Aug. 1837 Kérkyra, Kerkira, Ionian Islands, Greece
Married: Ellen possible surname Barrett
Children: Ellen May Hartley
B:05 June 1827 Lancashire, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
D:11 Oct 1904 Orange, New South Wales, Australia.

James was a soldier and I believed he was based in Malta, Greece and also Mauritius.

After James passed his widow Ellen married a John 'Jerry' Margerison who served in the army with James. I believe John and Ellen never had children together.

If anyone is able to help me with any details that would be greatly appreciated.
Regards
David

Not quite sure what you are hoping for.

You know where he was born and I believe Durham records are available, probably on Ancestry or try the Durham Archives.

To know about military service you need to know which regiemnt he was in and then read up on their history.

Baptism: 10 Jun 1827 St Peter, Bolton, Lancashire
Ellen Hartley - Daughter of James Hartley & Ellen
Abode: Great Bolton
Occupation: Soldier
Baptised By: T. Fogg Curate
Register: Baptisms 1826 - 1827, Page 219, Entry 1750
Source: LDS Family Search

From FREE LanOPC site

NB.....NO reference to MAY in the child's name

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1404509

Connected...............John Middleton married Ellen Hartley

Wonder why OP has used different boards for linked requests??????

Middleton
Ellen
—
1904
Australia, Civil Deaths & Burials 1780-1985
Orange, New South Wales, Australia
Father, James.....Mother, Ellen

NB

NO mention of MAY as a name for the woman

What is the source of James's date and place of birth, please?
How do you know it's correct? Is it on his death cert?

Where did the surname Barrett come from for his wife?
Lots of trees on Ancestry give that as her name, but without proof.

Some of the trees give James's life history as you have outlined
but others have him dying approx 1890 (no proof).

Some have mixed him up with another James Hartley, born c1799 in Marsden, near Burnley, Lancs.

For example:

James Hartley
1871 England Census
Name James Hartley
Age 71
Estimated Birth Year 1800
Relation Head
Gender Male
Where born Marsden, Lancashire, England <<<<<<<<<<<<
Civil parish Barrowford
Ecclesiastical parish St Anne
Town Wheatley Lane
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Registration District Burnley
Sub-registration district Colne
ED, institution, or vessel 45
Household schedule number 59
Piece 4158
Folio 87
Page number 10
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
James Hartley 71 Head - Clogger
Ellin Hartley 60 Wife

Where and when did his widow re-marry? If it was in England/Wales her father’s name will be on the marriage cert

Are you 100% certain that your relative was born in Co. Durham?

As per my post on the OTHER thread, daughter Ellen married in Mauritius 1847-9

This could possibly be John (Jerry) He served in the Med and Mauritius. Catalina and Vodo in 1841, Mauritius in 1851

First name(s) John
Discharge service number 781
Last name Margerison
Document type Discharge
Birth year 1806
Series WO 97
Birth parish Blackburn
Series description Wo 97 - Chelsea Pensioners British Army Service Records 1760-1913
Birth town Blackburn
Archive reference WO 97/273
Birth county Lancashire
Box 273
Birth country England
Box record number 54
Service number 781
Country England
Private
Archive The National Archives
Regiment 5th Regt Of Fusiliers
Record set British Army Service Records
Year 1829
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Attestation date 19 Nov 1829
Subcategory Regimental & Service Records
Attestation age years 23
Collections from Great Britain, England
Discharge corps 5th Regt Of Fusiliers

John Margerison and Ellen Hartley married in Corfu. Info (limited) on FMP

As stated earlier, cert will provide name of her father

Thanks everyone for your responses.
Yes, the information about John Margerison is similar to what I have.
I have James Hartley date of birth and death and other information as a result of documented family history by relatives etc. But nothing official. Which is what I'm hoping to discover.
I believe he was in the fifth fusiliers - which I have researched - but have not come across anything specific about James Hartley.

It took me over twenty years to track down my maternal grandfather's true identity so I'm happy to put in the work to find out more about James. Just stuck at the moment.
Again, thanks everyone for your responses, much appreciated.

Something official?
There will be no ‘official ‘ document ‘ for James birth - there may be a baptismal record. Death records may well be a problem unless the army produced a death certificate in Chaplains records.
You are unlikely to find anything specific about his army service unless he was an officer or awarded a medal - check the London Gazette for thst. Also check the National Archives - they may have something either in his name or what was happening in the places mentioned above at the time you think he died.
Both the London Gazette and the National Archives are online.
The fifth Fusiliets are presumably the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers

By official I mean possible baptism or war record - I have previously managed to confirm DOB via army records. I believe he was awarded a medal - but again that is only hearsay/family history. I will look at both the London Gazette and the National Archives. Yes, I think the fifth fusiliers are the Northumberland Fusilers. Thanks for your response - appreciated.

Source Gro Ionian Islands Chaplains Returns Marriages (1818 To 1864)
Marriage place Corfu
Archive reference MINC
Page 71
Records year range 1818-1864
Place type Place
Record set British Armed Forces And Overseas Banns And Marriages
Volume 11
First name(s) John
Line number 32
Sex Male
Archive General Register Office
Last name Margerison
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Marriage year 1818-64
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Type Consular/Overseas
Collections from Great Britain, UK None
Country Greece

Get copy cert for her father's name

I've come across a couple of things via an old Rootschat post:

https://www.northumberlandfusiliers.org.uk/research/

and regimental postings:
1837-42 Ionian Islands
1842-43 Gibraltar
1843-47 Ireland
1847-57 Mauritius
(redesignated 1st Btn on formation of 2nd)
1857-60 India

2nd Btn from formation
1857-58 England
1858-62 Mauritius

The Rootschat link:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=626223.0


added: have you found this history via Google books:

https://ia801309.us.archive.org/7/items/historynorthumberlandfusiliers
/HistoryNorthumberlandFusiliers.pdf

The bit you want is 1817 to 1856

Many thanks again Ericka and Namelessone for that additional information. Much appreciated.

Autocorrect I hope ;-)

Yes I suspect it was namelessone :-D :-S :-S

:-D

Further info on 781 Margerison... Apologies for any duplication


UK, Worldwide Army Index, 1841
Incident Date 1 Jan 1841
Rank Name Private
Service Number 781
Duty Location Catalonia and Vido
Primary Unit 5th Regiment Of Foot


UK, Worldwide Army Index, 1851
Full Name Margerison, John
Incident Date 1851
Rank Name Private
Service Number 781
Duty Location Mauritius
Primary Unit 5th Regiment Of Foot (Northumberland Fusiliers)

Weaver by trade, born Blackburn.
Attested at Ormskirk, Lincoln 19th November 1829. Aged 23.
22 years 136 days service.
Concealed that he had been discharged from 17th Lancers when he attested at Ormskirk. 192 days served with Lancers deemed "being totally unfit for His Majesty's Service"