Genealogy Chat

Today I wrote a sensitive letter to the occupants of the house where Ved lived before his death as it’s not been sold so hopefully they are relatives and will have the answer. They are not obliged to reply of course but hopefully they will.
Pat.

I don’t know anything either about D.N.A. And have no wish to. I haven’t spoken to my daughter in law to see if she is interested.
Pat.

I know very little about DNA and have no interest in it, but would the daughter’s hold at least a clue to the man’s background?

Thank you for that.
That was far from my mind. It’s good to have someone else’s eyes to look at things.
Pat

William Kirby is correct - Head of household
Ann Goulbourne is his married daughter
James Goulbourne is his son in law

First name(s) Ann
Last name Kirby
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1877
MarriageFinder™ James Goulbourn
District Ormskirk
County Lancashire

The 8 sons/daughters are Ann and James children
Henry b.1879 and Richard b. 1883 Are brothers :-)

Richard's surname is misspelt on his birth reg, which is probably why you couldn't find him. :-)

I was confused at first because the first name is William Kirby not Goulbourne but I think that is an error as Formby is very near Kirkby. It would seem that William is a widower.
Ann is down as his daughter but I think she is his daughter in law and married to James who is listed as his son in law.
It would seem that I could be right saying Henry and Richard were brothers.
Many thanks for your help. I am very grateful.
Pat.

Name misspelt

First name(s) Richard
Last name Goulburn
Birth registration year 1883
Registration quarter 1
Mother's maiden name -
District Ormskirk
County Lancashire

GRO -
Name:..................................... Mother's Maiden Surname:
GOULBURN, RICHARD ...... KIRBY
GRO Reference: 1883 M Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 837

Very long shot

First name(s) Richard
Last name Goulbourne
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1953
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ Rose A Mawdsley
Spouse's last name Mawdsley
District Crosby
District number -
County Lancashire

First name(s) Henry
Last name Goulbourne
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1902
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ Alice Mawdsley
District Ormskirk
District number -
County Lancashire

Nothing for Cosby.
???
1891 Raven Meols Lane, Formby, Ormskirk, Lancashire
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Kirby Head Married Male 79 1812 Farmer Formby, Lancashire
Ann Goulbourne Daughter Married Female 44 1847 - Formby, Lancashire
James Goulbourne Son in law Married Male 42 1849 General labourer Lancashire
Elizabeth Goulbourne Daughter Single Female 20 1871 Charwoman Formby, Lancashire
James Goulbourne Son Single Male 22 1869 General labourer Ince Blundell, Lancashire
William Goulbourne Son Single Male 13 1878 General labourer Formby, Lancashire
Henry Goulbourne Son Single Male 12 1879 Scholar Formby, Lancashire
Ellen Goulbourne Daughter Single Female 10 1881 Scholar Formby, Lancashire
Richard Goulbourne Son Single Male 8 1883 Scholar Formby, Lancashire
Catharine Goulbourne Daughter Single Female 6 1885 Scholar Formby, Lancashire
Thomas Goulbourne Son Single Male 4 1887 - Formby, Lancashire

Henry Goulbourne was the gt. grandfather iof Nina and I think he was born 1879 in Crosby. He married a lady called Alice Maudsley (Mawdsley) I’m wondering if Richard was the brother of Richard and they married sisters.
I would be grateful if someone could look at the 1891 census which might give me a clue. They lived in the Crosby area.
Thank you.

I’ve just found out that Rose Ann Maudsley 1882 born Formby. Married Richard Goulbourne 1953 in Crosby and died 1963 in Ormskirk. All in the right area but Rose would be 71 when she married and he has no dates for birth and death of Richard.
I can find a death for Richard Goulbourne in 1960 in Ormskirk and as he was 76 he would be born I think in 1884. Unfortunately I haven’t found the birth as yet.
The plot thickens. I think I’ll have to ask for the help of Miss Marple.
Pat.

Ved is the father of Nina who is my son’s partner. Margaret left Ved and when Nina was 10 her mother married again but still wasn’t satisfied with the second husband and left both girls with him and went off with someone else. Her two daughters had their surname changed by deed poll and the second husband brought them up. They looked after him until his death in 2003.
I have no idea how the chap who has given me permission to look at his tree is connected although I’m leaning to the Goulbourne side of the family. I have spoken to Nina and she hasn’t any idea either. I have ask him but haven’t had a reply. The chap was born in
Yes I realise that he has Margaret in his tree when I had another look.
Nina and her sister didn’t see much of Ved after the divorce which is sad. He did try to get in touch with them many years ago via the Salvation Army but they were talked out of it with other family members. Something they regret.
The chap who gave me permission was born 1974 in Southport. I will have to dig deep.
Many thanks for trying to help.
Pat.

Pat, his will won't have his place of birth on it, it isn't a requirement.
If I was keen to find this information I would order his death cert.
Is it imperative that you know his place of birth?

You haven't mentioned anything about 'the Goulbourne family and the Oldham family' on this thread so no-one here will have a clue.

May I ask how you are connected to this man?

I've just looked on 'Find A Will' with the details you have given.
The document type is 'Administration' which suggests he died intestate - 'without a valid will'. When there is a will the document type is 'Probate'.
Puzzling.

That's a pity.

Were you able to work out how he thinks Ved and the daughters are related to him?

You said he doesn't have Margaret on his tree - but he does. (Margaret Goulbourne, 1940, Crosby.)
It seems to me that he must think that she or one of her relatives is the link.

It looks as if Margaret's second marriage didn't last, as she is Goulbourne on her death record.
You said the daughters' names were changed by Deed Poll - but they married under their birth surname, so must have changed back again.

I’ve looked at the tree on genes when I was given permission and unfortunately it’s rubbish. He has two family members who married and then remarried without a divorce. I think it’s been copied from other sources and it’s a bit like Chinese whispers.
Doesn’t seem to have done any research.
Thank you all for trying.
Pat.

I don't think locations are listed on death certificates of people born overseas.

Just country of birth is shown.

I don’t have a copy of the death certificate but the will doesn’t say where he was born.
His family seem to live in the same house as it hasn’t been sold since his death so I was thinking about writing to the occupants but I don’t want to upset them. I know I’ll have to be careful.
Pat.

Does his death cert not say where he was born?

I’ve actually received a message this morning giving me permission to look at the tree in question which is good but I’m struggling to find a connection with the Goulbourne family and the Oldham family. I will have to send a message and hope he will answer.
Many thanks for replying.
Pat.