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MICHAEL
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16 Jan 2025 16:59 |
Thank you for all this. I did use the info alongside records and the 1901 cencus in particular using a daughter's name on that alongside an age match etc from the 1911 cencus at which point Evelyn is on there as 'wife'. As you said though, we know they weren't married until 1922. I think he may have absconded in the late 1890s to the Welsh valleys, maybe for work initially, met Margaret and shacked up there. Eliza was living with the man she would later marry and I could see from baptism records, their 3 children were all baptised same day in 1901, so maybe she was worried for them and her 'living in sin'. It's definitely a messy, dramatic situation but i spoke with someone who turns out to be my Father's cousin and his mother was one of the Mabels but he was adopted by his aunt. Or maybe Mabel adopted him fom another sister. Can't recall now. But it's definitely been interesting looking into Lorenzo and Eliza. My Uncle has an old memory of his and a big moustache and the picture I found online of him confirms this. Thank you so much for all your help and nudges.
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ErikaH
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12 Jan 2025 11:59 |
Name Phyllis Christina Baker Baptism Age 0 Record Type Baptism Birth Date 1910 Baptism Date 21 Jul 1910 Baptism Place Grangetown, Glamorganshire, Wales Father Harry Baker Mother Evelyn Baker
Name Phyllis Christina Harford Death Age 78 Birth Date 27 Jun 1910 Registration Date Dec 1988 Registration district South Glamorgan Inferred County South Glamorgan Volume 28 Page 1840
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ErikaH
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9 Jan 2025 20:38 |
Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%) Kaye Edith Ann Huddersfield 9a 546 Lodge Ernest Huddersfield 9a 546
Name Edith Ann Kaye Gender Female Marital Status Single Age 21 Birth Date 1874 Marriage Date 14 Aug 1895 Marriage Place Milnsbridge, York, England Father Walter Kaye Spouse Ernest Lodge Father Jannis Lodge
Marriages Dec 1919 (>99%) Lodge Edith A Wardrop Huddersfield 9a 770 Wardrop William Lodge Huddersfield 9a 770
Name William Wardrop, Widower Marriage Age 43 Event Type Marriage Birth Year abt 1876 Marriage Date 22 Dec 1919 Marriage Place Kirkheaton, St John the Baptist, Yorkshire, England Father John Wardrop, Stone Mason (deceased) Spouse Edith Ann Lodge Father Walter Kaye, Chemical Manufacturer (deceased)
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ErikaH
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8 Jan 2025 15:54 |
Marriages Jun 1942 (>99%) Hocking Hedley G Lodge E.Glamorgan 11a 2323 Lodge Queenie E Hocking E.Glamorgan 11a 2323
Hocking Queenie Elizabeth 02/05/2017 England & Wales Deaths 2007-2024 Cardiff
Hocking Hedley George 26/02/1916 03/1993 England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 South Glamorgan
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ErikaH
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8 Jan 2025 13:37 |
1911 Census For England & Wales 69 Tymawr Road, Whitchurch, Glamorganshire, Wales
John Price Head Married Male 56 1855 Labourer Rhayader Radnor Annie Elizabeth Price Wife Married Female 53 1858 - Earlestown Lancashire May Price Adopted daughter - Female 10 1901 - Llandaff North Glam
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ErikaH
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6 Jan 2025 15:37 |
So Lorenzo/Henry fathered one daughter named Mabel, passed her on to someone else, and fathered another Mabel with his next 'wife'
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ErikaH
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6 Jan 2025 15:20 |
1921 Census Of England & Wales 61, Ty-Mawr Road, Llandaff North, Whitchurch, Glamorganshire, Wales
A E Price Head Female 1857 64 Lancashire, England Home Duties - Mabel Honor Baker Adopted daughter Female 1901 20 Llandaff North, Glamorganshire, Wales Sewing Maid Cardiff Mental Hospital Out Of Work Queenie E Baker Adopted GrandDaughter Female 1920 1 Glamorganshire, Wales - -
Births Jun 1920 (>99%) Baker Queenie E Baker Cardiff 11a 800
BAKER, QUEENIE ELIZABETH - GRO Reference: 1920 J Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 800
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ErikaH
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6 Jan 2025 14:31 |
Just mooching around in various records...................and posting what comes up, which does suggest that Lorenzo/Henry was the one who 'married' Margaret Hodgson
Marriages Sep 1898 (>99%) Baker Henry Stephen Cardiff 11a 509 Hodgson Margaret Cardiff 11a 509
BAKER, MABEL HONOR HODGSON GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 306
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census 1, Penrhys Road, Ystradyfodwg, Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales
Henry Baker Head Married Male 29 1872 Coal hewer Cirencester, Gloucestershire, England Margaret Baker Wife Married Female 22 1879 - Windermere, Westmorland, England Elizabeth Baker Daughter - Female 1 1900 - Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales Mabel Baker Daughter - Female 0 1901 - Llandaff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Name Elizabeth Jane Baker Baptism Age 0 Record Type Baptism Birth Date 10 May 1900*******************does not match Birth record Baptism Date 8 Aug 1900 Baptism Place Ystradyfodwg, Glamorganshire, Wales Father Henry Stephen Baker..................Timberman Mother Margaret Baker Address: 9 Tyisa Court, Gelli
CLEVERLY, ELIZABETH JANE HODGSON GRO Reference: 1899 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 531
Deaths Mar 1902 (>99%)****************************************************** Baker Margaret 23 Cardiff 11a 186
A tree on Ancestry has Mabel dying in 1902, BUT NO CERT, and...............................
Name Mabel H Baker Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec 1921 Registration district Cardiff Inferred County Glamorganshire Spouse Herman Lodge Volume Number 11a Page number 990
1939 Register 61 Ty-Mawr Road, Cardiff, Cardiff C.B., Glamorganshire, Wales Annie W Price 25 Dec 1857 Female Incapacitated Widowed 290 1 Herman Lodge 24 Sep 1898 Male Plan Coco Labourer Pe Way Married 290 2 Mabel H Lodge 24 Feb 1900 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 290 3 Queenie E Hocking (Lodge) 20 May 1920 Female Domestic Daily Service Single 290 4 Edith A Davies (Lodge) 12 Jul 1924 Female Domestic Daily Service Single 290 5 William Lodge 26 Sep 1926 Male At School Single 290 6 John Lodge 04 Sep 1929 Male At School Single 290 7
Name Mabel Honor Lodge Death Date 7 Jan 1963 Death Place Llandaff North Probate Date 6 Mar 1963 Probate Registry Llandaff Administration to Herman Lodge, retired council worker Effects £1642 17s
Deaths Mar 1963 (>99%) LODGE MABEL H 62 CARDIFF 8B 15_
Deaths Jun 1977 (>99%) LODGE HERMAN 24SE1898 S GLAMORGAN 28 1995
LODGE, HERMAN KAYE GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in HUDDERSFIELD Volume 09A Page 284
1921 Census Of England & Wales 40, Lane End, Dalton, Yorkshire (West Riding), England William Wardrop Head Male 1876 45 Scotland Forman Sir Mackalpine Public Works Contractors Edith Ann Wardrop Wife Female 1874 47 Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland House Wife Herman Lodge Son Male 1898 23 Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England Brich Labourer Sir R Mackalpie Jack Lodge Son Male 1900 21 Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England Brick Layer -Sir R Mackalpie Hilda Lodge Daughter Female 1903 18 Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England Stay At Home
The person on Ancestry who has got completely wrong info about Mabel refuses to accept the facts. But.................. his tree, his problem.
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ErikaH
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5 Jan 2025 19:45 |
Don’t take any notice of so-called ‘information’ unless you can verify it. Use freebmd to look for marriages……..then the GRO site to find possible children of those unions
Both Lorenzo and Eliza had adulterous relationships as I have shown with the documentary evidence found online.
In fact they both went through what were almost certainly bigamous ‘marriages’ and lied consistently. Divorce was virtually unheard-of except for the very wealthy, so they would have done what they felt necessary.
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MICHAEL
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5 Jan 2025 18:01 |
Having said that, the census of 1901 shows Eliza Cleverly and children as well as some people sharing her maiden name Filor, already living with Frederick Dangerfield. Lorenzo not in sight. The 3 children were baptised at the end of 1901 but Lorenza may not have been on the scene as he wasn't in the March 1901 when the census was done. Scandal
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MICHAEL
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5 Jan 2025 17:23 |
My bad. I found it through signing up to ancestory and can see they lived in Catherine Street in November 2001 in Swindon. I think I can disregard anything to do with Margaret Hodgson now
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MICHAEL
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5 Jan 2025 16:55 |
Hi again,
I have someone who has informed me that Lorenza (Henry Baker) Cleverly was also married to a Margaret Hodgson in around 1898. I'm not confident in this information, however. I did find a Henry Baker in the 1901 cencus living in Ystradyfodwg in Pontypridd who was married to a Margaret. This Henry Baker was born in Cirencester too and moved to Cardiff. I've not found any further info on Margaret after this though. No death record, no further cencus records. I've had difficulty finding some of the records you refer to online. I'm using findmypast.com and have been unsuccessful in finding some of the parish info you gave me in your thread, particularly around Lorenza's baptism and his daughter Amelia's. Where did you find this info please as at the moment, I'm on the assumption he was living a double life. From what I heard about him from the family, this may not be particularly far from the truth. It may be when he said he was a widower on his marriage banns to Evelyn (my greatgrandmother) he was telling the truth and referring to Margaret?
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ErikaH
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1 Jan 2025 14:26 |
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Overton, West Overton, Marlborough, Wiltshire, England Sarah Cleverly Female 50 1791 Wiltshire, England Jemima Cleverly Female 20 1821 Wiltshire, England Elizabeth Cleverly Female 23 1818 Wiltshire, England Mary Cleverly Female 22 1819 Wiltshire, England Henry Cleverly Male 19 1822 Wiltshire, England Ellen Cleverly Female 15 1826 Wiltshire, England Eliza Cleverly Female 12 1829 Wiltshire, England
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Lockeridge, West Overton, Marlborough, Wiltshire, England Henry Cleverly Head Married Male 28 1823 Ag lab Overton, Wiltshire, England Ann Cleverly Wife Married Female 26 1825 - Overton, Wiltshire, England Elizabeth Cleverly Daughter - Female 6 1845 - Overton, Wiltshire, England Stephen Cleverly Son - Male 4 1847 - Overton, Wiltshire, England Jane Cleverly Daughter - Female 2 1849 - Lockeridge, Wiltshire, England Mary Cleverly Daughter - Female 0 1851 - Lockeridge, Wiltshire, England Henry Laws Brother in law Unmarried Male 16 1835 Ag lab Overton, Wiltshire, England
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Upcross, South Cerney, Cirencester, Gloucestershire, England Henry Chearley Head Married Male 39 1822 Gardener Overton, Wiltshire, England Ann Chearley Wife Married Female 37 1824 - Overton, Wiltshire, England Elizabeth Ann Chearley Daughter Unmarried Female 16 1845 General servant Fyfield, Wiltshire, England John Chearley Son - Male 14 1847 Groom Lockeridge, Wiltshire, England Louisa Jane Chearley Daughter - Female 12 1849 Scholar Lockeridge, Wiltshire, England Mary Ellen Chearley Daughter - Female 10 1851 Scholar Lockeridge, Wiltshire, England Emily Chearley Daughter - Female 8 1853 Scholar Lockeridge, Wiltshire, England Alfred Chearley Son - Male 5 1856 Scholar South Cerney, Gloucestershire, England Selyna Chearley Daughter - Female 2 1859 - South Cerney, Gloucestershire, England
Above is the appalling mess made by the FMP transcriber. I have submitted corrections
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ErikaH
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1 Jan 2025 14:14 |
Name Stephen Cleverley Gender Male Baptism Date 4 Jul 1847 Baptism Place Fyfield By Marlborough,Wiltshire,England Father Henry Cleverley Mother Ann FHL Film Number 950267
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Poulton, Cirencester, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire, England Henry Cleverly Head - Male 48 1823 ? Overton, Wiltshire, England Ann Cleverly Wife - Female 46 1825 - Wiltshire, England Stephen Cleverly Son - Male 20 1851 Labourer Wiltshire, England Henry Cleverly Son - Male 8 1863 - South Cerney, Gloucestershire, England
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nameslessone
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31 Dec 2024 16:51 |
Well done for finding your way back. Ticking the watched thread doesn’t do any more than give you a shorter list to look through. As this is the only thread you have posted on you may as well just pop straight back to it.
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ErikaH
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31 Dec 2024 16:48 |
Glad you found your way back.
Hope everything falls into place………..
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MICHAEL
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31 Dec 2024 15:46 |
Thanks for the info there Erika. I'm new to the site and only using my mobile so it's been a little difficult. I have now discovered how to get to threads and will review your above info shortly. I've now ticked to say this is now a watched thread.
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ErikaH
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24 Dec 2024 11:07 |
DOWDING Evelyn SPARKS 1880 Stroud, Minchinhampton 11 433
1881 Name Evelyn Dowding Relationship to Head Granddaughter Gender Female Where born Minchinhampton, Gloucestershire, England Civil parish Minchinhampton County/Island Gloucestershire Country England Street Address 11 Park Terrace Registration district Stroud ED, institution, or vessel 1 Neighbors View others on page Piece 2549 Folio 18 Page number 32 Household Members (Name) Age Relationship Jane Sparks 63 Head Joseph Sparks 23 Son Evelyn Dowding Granddaughter Lucy J. Wise 11 Boarder
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ErikaH
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24 Dec 2024 11:02 |
Name Henry Stephen Baker Gender Male Marriage Age 54 Record Type Marriage Birth Date 1868 Marriage Date 24 Apr 1922 Marriage Place Roath St Margaret, Glamorganshire, Wales Father Stephen Baker, deceased, Soldier Spouse Evelyn Dowding Father Edward Dowding Page number 230 The groom said he was a widower................clearly untrue. I wonder how his wife described herself when she ‘married’ Dangerfield When Lorenzo was baptiised, his father was a Labourer.
Name Stephen Cleverly Age 31 Birth Date abt 1849 Burial Date 13 Feb 1880 Burial Place South Cerney, Gloucestershire, England
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Poulton, Cirencester, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire, England Henry Cleverly Head - Male 48 1823 ? Creiton, Wiltshire, England Ann Cleverly Wife - Female 46 1825 - Wiltshire, England Stephen Cleverly Son - Male 20 1851 Labourer Wiltshire, England Henry Cleverly Son - Male 8 1863 - South Cerney, Gloucestershire, England
CLEVERLEY, - LAWS GRO Reference: 1863 M Quarter in CIRENCESTER UNION Volume 06A Page 340
Name Henry Cleverley Gender Male Marriage Age 22 Birth Date abt 1822 Marriage or Bann Date 25 May 1844 Marriage or Bann Place Overton, Wiltshire Father Thos Cleverley Spouse Ann Laws Father Stephen Laws
Name Henry Laws Cleverley Event Type Baptism Baptism Date 9 Feb 1860 Baptism Place South Cerney, Gloucestershire, England Father Henry Cleverley Mother Ann Cleverley
Name Henry Laws Cleverley Age 0 Birth Date abt 1860 Burial Date 12 Feb 1860 Burial Place South Cerney, Gloucestershire, England
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Jink20
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23 Dec 2024 20:59 |
RE : 1921 Census Of England & Wales 31, Armstrong Street, Swindon, Chiseldon, Wiltshire, England Frederick W Dangerfield Head Male 1878 43 Swindon, Wiltshire, England House Decorator
Fold3 results
UK, WWI, Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923
Full Name Dangerfield, Frederick Alias [Blank] Birth Date 1877 Discharge Date 15 Jul 1919 Service Number 307710 Address 31 Armstrong Street, Swindon, Wilts Gender Male Rank Pte Regiment Tanks Service Branch Military (Army) Household ID [Blank] Year Range 1914 - 1926 Reference Number 8 MD 15_498183 Document Number 8/MD/No1516 Archive Location London, England Archive Name Western Front Association Conflict Period World War I Served For United Kingdom
Disability- GSW Left Arm
UK, WWI, Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923 Full Name Dangerfield, Frederick Service Number 307710, 520271
520271 -Royal Engineers At some point during his service he was with the Royal Engineers. I suspect RE first then Tanks, as Tanks did not appear until 1916.....unless it is a clerical error.
Full Name Dangerfield, Frederick W Rank Name Private Service Number 307710 NA Url /details/r/D2076125 NA Years 1914-1920 Regiment Tank Corps Archive Reference WO 372/5/159556 Conflict Period World War I Served For United Kingdom
award Victory Medal award British War Medals
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