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Too true ErikaH! I despair at the hints I get especially other family trees. Following like sheep is very apt. The number of times I see people posted as deceased when they are alive twenty years later :-0

I get embarrassed sometimes about how many certificates I have bought since I started doing this twenty or so years ago.... ;-)

Well done.

It is the searching which keeps us interested in FH, but those inaccurate records do present some challenges :-0

I have several certificates bought to clarify matters, which have in fact muddied the waters and posed more questions.
Some are still unresolved, after many years, others have been helped by living family members who knew the truth.

Poor hearing and poor interpretation of an original record have a lot to answer for too ;-)

It's only the most tenacious of us who 'get there' unfortunately - so many are prepared to settle for what they 'think' is corrrect

Very satisfying indeed!
In this instance, especially the eureka moment when I found Arthur's wife's emigration record (she and Arthur emigrated to Canada) which gave her father's name and address and I realised who she was, having previously researched her parents and siblings!

Indeed ErikaH! But that why it is so satisfying to put a puzzle together successfully even though inaccuracies try their very best to stymie us!

The joys of FH ;-) ;-)

Incidentally, I've found other confusions with this family and wider relations.

Just for interest -
One of OH's gr-grandfather's brothers was called Arthur.
On the 1911 census he's listed as Martha, a daughter!

I suspect this is because of the enumerator's hearing, and their mother's poor level of literacy. In 1901 she's listed as "cannot read".
Although she ostensibly signed the 1911 form, and is listed as "can read & write", I suspect that was only at a very basic level, and that she didn't read what had been entered on the form, but just signed where she was told to.
The enumerator must have filled in the form for her, and misheard Arthur's name.

I have also just discovered that Arthur married his mother's previous husband's sister's daughter.
All very complicated, and not helped by inaccurate records!

Explains why there are differences in some of the handwriting!

So, nowadays, that would have very serious repercussions because it is the registrars book of births that is sacrosanct. I read of someone, born a girl, married with five children that she had given birth to and with a birth certificate that said she was a girl....applied for a copy of her birth certificate to find the registrar had recorded her as a boy in the Registrar's book. Can't get a new passport, has been told her marriage is invalid and that when she dies it will say she is male!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jude

I assume that the one with the printed number is the original, and the other one is a handwritten copy, with serious mistakes.

In fact, now that I look at it again, the page on which the "Samuel" one is found does say at the bottom "I certify . . . . . . that this is a true copy of the Registrar's Book of Births . . .".

Definitely a mistake by H D Osborne, the Registrar!

ArgyllGran

How weird indeed?!!!!

Decided to register with GRONI and looked at the online certificate. As you say 292 is typed in rather than hand written. And all details seem to be same except for Sarah F and Samuel M........but I don't think they are the same entries. Compare Car Dealer....they don't look to be the same :-S :-S :-S

Jude

The 1912 Devonport JFW, with parents James and Mabel Elizabeth, seems likely to be Sarah's husband, whose Findagrave entry I posted yesterday at 16:54.

The Navy connection; the name; the approx age; father's name James - it all fits, as far as one can see.



I only started this thread because of the Sarah/Samuel birth anomaly - but as so often happens, one heads down a rabbit hole!

Sarah is a very distant twig on my late OH's tree - in fact not related at all!
My OH's maternal gr-grandmother was married three times. OH's gr-grandfather was her third husband.
Her second husband was Sarah's uncle Robert Devers.
:-S

From GRONI..................no births with second forename Ferris between 1906 and 1908
Posting here only those for 1907

Registration number Forename of child Surname of child Date of birth Sex of child Mother's maiden name Registration district

U/1907/37/1006/16/357 James Wright 5th February 1907 Male Logan Banbridge(pre-1973 Q4) Enhanced
Full
Order certificate
U/1907/34/1006/17/382 James Wright 3rd March 1907 Male McKnight Banbridge(pre-1973 Q4) Enhanced
Full
Order certificate
U/1907/32/1006/40/223 James Wright 7th April 1907 Male Neill Banbridge(pre-1973 Q4) Enhanced
Full
Order certificate
U/1907/14/1002/15/51 James Wright 26th June 1907 Male Wright Armagh(pre-1973 Q4) Enhanced
Full
Order certificate
U/1908/56/1007/23/227 James Wright 28th November 1907 Male Gamble Belfast(pre-1973 Q4) Enhanced
Full
Order certificate
U/1907/50/1007/105/247 James Wright 2nd December 1907 Male Belfast(pre-1973 Q4) Enhanced

Just adding odds and sods re men named JFW........in case any of the info proves useful when cross-referencing

Name James Ferris Wright
Birth Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Birth Date 1907
Birth Place Banbridge, Ireland
Birth Registration Date Jun 1907
Birth Registration Place Ireland
Volume 1
Page 131
FHL Film Number 101071


WRIGHT, JAMES FERRIS COOK
GRO Reference: 1912 D Quarter in DEVONPORT Volume 05B Page 474

First name(s) James Ferris
County Devon
Last name Wright
Country England
Birth year 1912
Event type Baptism registers
Birth date 02 Sep 1912
Archive Plymouth & West Devon Record Office
Baptism year 1912
Archive reference 2036/2/b
Baptism date 08 Sep 1912
Page 386
Father's first name(s) James
Record set Devon Baptisms
Mother's first name(s) Mabel Elizabeth
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Mother's last name -
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Denomination Anglican
Collections from England, Great Britain
Place Devonport, St Paul



Name Mr James Ferris Wright
Death Date 28 Jul 1958
Death Place Northern Ireland
Record Date 30 Oct 1958
Record Place Belfast, Northern Ireland
URL https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx


First name(s) James Ferris
Publication year 1972
Last name Wright
Publication date 05 Jun 1972
Sex Male
Page number 2
Death year 1972
Publication city Belfast
Death date 4 Jun 1972
Publication county Antrim
Place Four Winds*****************************Son-in-Law's residence
Publication region Ireland
County Coldagh, Ballymoney
Publication country Ireland
Country Ireland
Record set Irish Newspaper Death & In Memoriam Notices
Spouse's first name(s) Lucinda
Category Newspapers & publications
Spouse's last name Wright
Subcategory Newspaper Death & In Memoriam Notices
Working title News Letter (Belfast, Northern Ireland)
Collections from Ireland, England, Great Britain
Publication title Belfast News-Letter

1921 Census Of England & Wales
25, Cornwall Street, Devonport, Devon, England
Mabel E Wright Head Female 1887 34 Devonport, Devon, England Home Duties -
James F Wright Son Male 1912 8 Devonport, Devon, England - -
Mabel E Wright Daughter Female 1914 6 Devonport, Devon, England - -
Thomas H Wright Son Male 1919 1 Devonport, Devon, England - -

On GRONI:

Birth of Sarah's brother William, which doesn't appear on irishgenealogy.ie:

U/1925/49/1007/173/76 William Newell 25th December 1924 Male Devers Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)

Ooer!!!! I did notice that the birth of Agnes stated sex at birth was not defined. And that Samuel was male.....but what if?!!!!!! ????

Ah! How weird!

On GRONI, the image of the 25/12/1910 birth cert quite clearly shows the name Sarah, Female.
Everything else is exactly the same as the "Samuel" record.
Same registration number 282, though on the GRONI record it's printed, and on the other one it's hand-written.

Registration details
Registration number
U/1911/49/1007/136/282
Registration district
Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)
Registration sub-district
Belfast Urban 3

Child details
Surname of child
Newell
Forename(s) of child
Sarah
Date of birth
25th December 1910
Sex of child
Female
District of birth
Belfast(pre-1973 Q4)

Mother details
Mother's forename
Margaret Newell
Mother's maiden surname
Devers

Father/2nd female parent details
Robert Newell

The claimed marriage is correct.

On GRONI:

Registration details

Registration number
M/1937/B1/450/5/5
Registration district
Belfast
Place of marriage
St Michaels Church of Ireland
Date of marriage
4th October 1937

Party 1 details

Forename 1 of party 1
James
Surname of party 1
Wright
Gender of party 1
Male
Age at marriage of party 1
25

Party 2 details

Forename 1 of party 2
Sarah
Surname of party 2
Newell
Gender of party 2
Female
Age at marriage of party 2
26


Sarah: Address - 27 Shannon Street. Father: Robert Newell, engraver.
James: 49 Bristol Street, Belfast. In Navy. Father: James Wright, time keeper.

The James in the tree was supposedly in the Navy. I just feel there is too much detail without any evidence but normally in that instance you have lots of about 1910 (for example) and not actual dates. Let's hope Mr Newell responds! :-D

WRIGHT, JAMES F — February 18, 1990. — Deeply regretted . Zy his Niece Anne, Husband yril and Family, England. Peacefully sleeping.
WRIGHT, JAMES F — February 18, 1990. — Deeply regretted by his Niece ...
Published: Tuesday 20 February 1990
Newspaper: Belfast Telegraph
County: Antrim, Northern Ireland

WRIGHT, JAMES — February 18, 1990. — Deeply regretted by Betty, Isaac and David. No last goodbyes, just fond memories.
WRIGHT, JAMES — Deeply regretted by his Friends George and Renee.
Published: Monday 19 February 1990
Newspaper: Belfast Telegraph
County: Antrim, Northern Ireland


Sarah had died 1/1 /1983, according to the tree.

Presumably:

Sarah Wright
in the UK and Ireland, Find a Grave® Index, 1300s-Current
Name Sarah Wright
Birth Date 1911
Death Date 1 Jan 1984
Cemetery Carnmoney Cemetery East
Burial or Cremation Place Newtownabbey, County Antrim, Northern Ireland

The one tree claiming a marriage for Sarah gives James Ferris Wright (1913)'s death as being on 18/2/ 1990 - but without proof or location.

Possibly this one, without middle name:

James Wright
in the UK and Ireland, Find a Grave® Index, 1300s-Current
Name James Wright
Birth Date 1913
Death Date 18 Feb 1990
Cemetery Carnmoney Cemetery East
Burial or Cremation Place Newtownabbey, County Antrim, Northern Ireland


I've contacted that tree owner, whose name is Newell, and who's based in Northern Ireland - so hopefully he knows more than he's put on his tree.

Thank you all for your interest.
I'll let you know!