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Arrrghhh many apologies Sylvia and Rootgather - I thought the thread had come to a full stop.

Yes, I think you both have a point....and that's the way my mind was going too.

Very grateful and apologies again. Cx

The above John seems to be the illegitimate son of William and Elizabeth's daughter. So perhaps he would give his grandfather's name on his marriage certificate.



First name(s) John
Last name Hughes
Birth year -
Baptism year 1844
Baptism date 04 Jan 1844
Denomination Anglican
Place Ellesmere
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Mother's last name -
Residence -
County Shropshire
Register type Baptism
Register date range 1831-1853
Archive reference P105/A/2/5
Page 187
Record set Shropshire Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from Great Britain, England

I wonder, given that John was a widower when he married Elizabeth, if he had knocked a bit off his age. This could be a red herring.

Transcription:
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Cross Street, Ellesmere, Shropshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

William Hughes Head Married Male 56 1795 Shoemaker Jour Ellesmere, Shropshire, England
Elizabeth Hughes Wife Married Female 67 1784 - Ellesmere, Shropshire, England
Ann Hughes Daughter Unmarried Female 32 1819 - Felton, Radnorshire, Wales
William Hughes Grand Son - Male 8 1843 Scholar Ellesmere, Shropshire, England
John Hughes Grand Son - Male 7 1844 Scholar Ellesmere, Shropshire, England
William Salusbury Inmate - Male 2 1849 - Ellesmere, Shropshire, England

How many John Hughes could have father William, Shoe Maker?????

This might be a wild goose chase .......... but he said he was a widower when he married Elizabeth in 1876. Occuaptions ARE different

from lancs-opc

Marriage: 29 Oct 1871 St Augustine, Everton, Lancashire, England
John Hughes - Full, Boiler Maker, Widower, Everton
Mary Ann Dodd - Full, Widow, Everton
Groom's Father: William Hughes, Shoe Maker
Bride's Father: William Hanson, Mariner
Witness: Richard Hughes; Anne Houldin
Married by Banns by: W J Edwards
Register: Marriages 1867 - 1873, Page 195, Entry 390
Source: LDS Film 1656014



no no ...... think I'm wrong

Thank you Sylvia...…..see Christine's fred. :-0

from ancestry ............

Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932

Name: Elizabeth Crossley
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: Full Age
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 5 Feb 1876
Marriage Place: Edge Hill, St Catherine, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Edge Hill, St Catherine' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: Momas Crossley
Spouse: John Hughes

Name: John Hughes
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: Full Age
Father: William Hughes

from image:-

John
Widower
Full Age
Messenger
Address:- Vauxhall Road
Father Occupation:- Shoemaker

Elizabeth
Spinster
Full Age
No occupation shown
Address:- ??Ocnkfield Road????
Father occupation:- Coachman

Witnesses:- (very hard to read) William Hartley ??? and Ellen Kilshaw

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1876
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
HUGHES John CROSSLEY Elizabeth Edge Hill, St. Catherine Liverpool 2061WD/1/221

deleted as I had got thoroughly confused!!

Thank you everyone.....I'm grateful for your efforts. x

1861 has one John Hughes of approx age,in Ellesmere. He’s a servant with a family named Morford

Can’t C&P at present

Thomas' birth registration got well and truly mangled!

from GRO ............

HUGHES, THOMAS ARRETT mmn CROSLEY
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 315


HUGHES, SARAH CROSSLEY mmn CROSSLEY
GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 310

John’s father’s details will be on the marriage cert - if he knew him

However, that's no help with siblings who might have married into the Hughes family - or his wife's.

Thanks ArgylleGran. xx

Elizabeth Ovrett
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Ovrett
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Huyton
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: Brook House
Occupation: Servant
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Hutton
Neighbors:
Piece: 512
Book: 7
Folio: 11
Page Number: 14


That could be the one from 1881 census.

This could be the one on 1871 census:

Elizabeth Arritt
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Arritt
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Huyton
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Hutton
Neighbors:
Piece: 512
Book: 7
Folio: 7
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
Abraham Arritt 65
Ralph Arritt 30
Elizabeth Arritt 25
Abraham Arritt 20

Thanks Maddie....yes that looks like the aunt from the 1881.

1871 ???

Name: Elizabeth Orrett
Age: 58
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1813
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Huyton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Huyton and Roby
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
Town: Huyton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Huyton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 133
Piece: 3856
Folio: 58
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah Norris 62
Elizabeth Houghton 48
Elizabeth Orrett 58
John Grahame 26
William R Grahame 18

ELIZABETH
Last name ORRETT
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1810
Age 76
Death quarter 1
Death year 1886
District West Derby
County Lancashire
Volume 8B
Page 318
Country England

1881
94, Vienna Street, Everton, West Derby, Lancashire, England

John Hughes Head Married Male 30 1851 Porter At Rubber Works Ellesmere, Shropshire, England
Elizabeth Hughes Wife Married Female 30 1851 - Aigburth, Lancashire, England
Thomas A Hughes Son Single Male 3 1878 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Sarah C Hughes Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Arrett Aunt Single Female 60 1821 Formerly Laundress Huyton, Lancashire, England ===========

Thank you both. I did find those details but am struggling with working backwards on John's line.

JOHN
Last name HUGHES
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1876
Registration month -

Elizabeth Crossley
District West Derby
District number -
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8B
Volume as transcribed 8B
Page number 420