Military Chat

Jink you did an amazing job with very little info and the links and advice are always useful. :-)

Erica , I promise there is a method to my madness. Robert was unmarried and the younger brother to my great Grandad. We knew this was the only brother affected by either of the wars but because he died relatively early without wife or issue, he was the only one I didn't have info on, and the only reason there's a wee rush on is because I am going to scotland on Friday to be visiting record office.

I am copying All your useful links into one document

I have Scottish People and now the links that Jink20 was good enough to share.

Thank you , I can now research Robert Kelly and what happened to this poor soul.

AG- Thanks for the confirmation

In which case..........

UK, WWI, Daily Reports: Missing, Dead, Wounded and POWs, 1914-1918

Full Name Kelly, R
Incident Details War Office Daily List No. 5371
Incident Date 22 Sep 1917
More Information
Entitled to wear a "Wound Stripe" as authorised under Army Order 204 of 6th July 1916. The terms of this award being met by their naming in this list.
Rank Name Private
Service Number 203017
Casualty Listed As Wounded
Next Of Kin Address North Berwick
Service British Army
Primary Unit Gordon Highlanders

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Robert's Medal Roll Index Card only shows that he had served with 4th Battalion
but his Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920 dated 29 April 1921, in Perth , suggests he also served in the 7th Battalion.

In 1917, men serving with Territorial Forces received new numbers. The 4th Battalion Gordons were issued numbers 200001-240000
So it is entirely possible that Robert has a pre-1917 Service number also.
However, I would have expected to have seen this on the Medal Roll Index Card but it does not appear there and I haven't found any other Service number.
The other explanation could be clerical error, but I'm no expert.

A fuller account of renumbering can be found here
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/

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Each Battalion kept a War Diary- Register/Sign In to the National Archives
to download free

4th Battalion Gordon's can be found here:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352073--1915 Feb. - 1916 Feb.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354786--1916 Mar. - 1919 Mar.

4th Battalion was part of a larger formation,a Brigade, which was part of a even larger formation, a Division. In June 1916, 4th Gordons were part of 154th Brigade, 51 Division.

Book
Order of Battle of Divisions Part 2A. The Territorial Force Mounted Divisions and the 1st-Line Territorial Force Divisions (42-56) (History of the Great War based on Official Documents) by Major A F Becke shows who the 4th Gordon's fought alongside and in which Battles (June 1916+)

Register and Sign In to see the contents of the above book free here:

https://archive.org/details/order-battle-divisions-p-2-a/page/107/mode/2up

Prior to June 1916 the War Diary should tell you who they were attached to and I will leave that to you to research.

Good find, Jink -

That is the correct Robert Kelly - family detail on other Kelly threads.

Robert Kelly
in the 1901 Scotland Census
Name Robert Kelly
Age 24
Estimated Birth Year abt 1877
Relationship Son
Mother's Name Mary Kelly
Gender Male
Where born North Berwick, Haddingtonshire
Registration Number 713
Registration District North Berwick
Civil parish North Berwick
Town North Berwick
County East Lothian
Address No 40 Victoria Road <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Occupation Greenkeeper Golf
ED 2B
Household schedule number 248
Line 25
Roll CSSCT1901_409
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Mary Kelly 65 Head
John Kelly 30 Son
Robert Kelly 24 Son
Lizzie Kelly 22 Daur (Daughter)
Jane Kelly 19 Grand Daur (Granddaughter)

This MAY be your Robert Kelly but confirmation is required. For example, is it the correct home address.

If this is not your Robert, could you please provide further information including your Robert's: Wife's name, children's name, DOB, address, parents's names.


WWI, Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923

Full Name Kelly, Robert *******
Discharge Date 7 Feb 1918
Service Number 203017
Address- 40 Victoria Road, North Berwick ********
Rank Pte
Regiment Gordon Highlanders ********

According to the Silver War Badge entry issued to the above soldier, he served with the 4th Battalion, enlisted 13/10/1916 and was 42yrs 1 month when discharged. This would suggest he had @ Jan 1876 DOB.
He was discharged under Army Order II (2) of 1917, para (2)(b)(i) "discharged due to disablement or ill-health not caused by misconduct"

You seem to be jumping all over the place with this research……….you’ll lose track of what you’re doing if you aren’t very careful.
Most people find it best to concentrate on one small segment until complete, or all avenues are exhausted, although you must obviously do your own ‘thing’ .

As you are probably aware from advice on one of your other threads, the majority of WW1 service records were destroyed.

I don't see any military record of Alexander Leitch. As he didn't sign up, I very much doubt there would be any record kept in any case.


I don't see any service record for Richard Sanderson Kelly.
He was over 41 when WW1 started, and therefore would not have been called up - unless possibly in 1918 when the age limit was raised to 51.
In 1911 and 1921, he was living in Norfolk with wife and children.

This sounds as if he didn't sign up in WW1:

"He took up the post of professional at the Eaton Golf Club in Norwich, in 1913 (according to Jackson’s Register though the club history suggests it only came into existence during the First World War when the Duke of Westminster handed Eaton Hall over to the War Office as a convalescent home for officers). In any event, other than a short interlude in 1924 when he went to the Mid-Norfolk club at Attleborough, he remained at Eaton until his retirement in 1946 at the age of 75. "
https://www.antiquegolfscotland.com/maker.php3?makerid=678



Do you know the exact date of birth of Robert Kelly 1876?

Have a look at his death cert on Scotland's People:

KELLY, ROBERT
45
mmn THOMSON
M
1922
685 / 5 / 1165
George Square

Take out a free trial - or a subscription - with Find My Past and search military records, but……..less than 30% of WW1 records survived.

Also, search for the men on censuses and find death records.

As for the suicide - what is the point of your post?

Hi there I am trying to find out about the Kelly Family from North Berwick. I was told that Great Uncle Robert Kelly came back from the first world war full of shrapnel and died soon afterwards. I have no idea what unit he was in or where he was posted. If anyone can find any info.

I don't know if Richard Sanderson Kelly born 1871 - North Berwick - Scotland did anything in the war?

I also have a great uncle who committed suicide because he was called up ?
He was a butcher: COMMITTED SUICIDE
Below is the details from the RCE of the death of Alexander Leitch

Record of Corrected Entry
County of Haddington - District of North Berwick
Volume 2 Page 126

The following report of the result of a precognition has been received touching the death of Alexander Leitch registered under No. 38 of the Registration Book for the year 1915.

Alexander Leitch age 38 male died 19th December 1915 at 6 Market Place, North Berwick.
Cause of death - Suicide by cutting throat

Haddington 3rd January 1916
16/01/1916 amended entry on Death Notice
Now reads Cerebral Disease—Hemorrhage
1 day