General Chat

Interesting to see how people put crimes in pecking order. Whilst raping children is disgusting and deplorable,cant understand how the murder of another adult is less so.Are we to assume that an adult is always capable of defending themselves,are we to assume that an adult cant be as vulnerable as a child? Families like the Krays were only effective in their own territory-they actually came up to Liverpool in the 1960's and soon got sent back home by the Peanut Gang.What makes me sick is all the London celebrities like barbara windsor who like the glamour of association with these people and all the others cashing in,like Kate Kray doing her series on british hardmen.The sentimentality of these lot is disgusting and misguided.They all adore their mothers,and the mother is always real proud of her boys............whilst they go out bullying,extorting,humiliating,and killing other members of the public. The modern day equivalent is the Adams brothers in london-they keep it quiet in a little terrace house.The Krays were to crime what David Beckham is to football-more image than substance.

Murder is murder ,no matter what the age of the victim. Shirley Ann.

Well the Krays might of been criminals but at least they were'nt murdering kids or raping children. I think it was all gangland stuff myself, having worked in a Club in Liverpool years ago, believe me its not what you know its who you know. Yvonne

I tell you what, it will be very interesting to see what comes to light if ever they demolish the Marylebone Flyover. Hal.

Bryan, sorry to learn you have not been well. Wishing you good health and better days to come. I know nothing of these men, besides what was projected in the movie. So based upon that, my opinion holds little value in comparison to those being presented by others. But for what it's worth - I was completely repulsed by the characters and their propensity for violence, as projected onscreen. I felt no sense of glorification of violence by the movie, but rather felt a high level of respect for the director and actors, in their ability to project the sheer barbarism and coldly calculated violence of the acts and the somewhat psychotic nature suggested present in the characters committing them. I left the film feeling compassion only for those who fell victim to or were victimised by these men and their contemporaries. I felt none whatsoever for the Kray's, their inner circles or the concept of 'street justice' in any form, including that presented in the movie. Thanks for a really interesting and informative thread. Patty :-)

Bryan There have always been criminals and hooligans. In my childhood I remember skinheads causing 'bovver' and in the 50s kids ripped up cinema seats (mind you, hearing Bob Haley, who wouldn't, lol) In the 1833 in Clerkenwell a riotous mob stabbed a policeman to death and the jury brought in a verdict of justifiable homicide! In the 1840s parts of the Golden Lane area of London had pubs with backdoors as getaways for thieves. Magistrates tried to seal them up, but the landlords opened them so they could escape if their clientele got rough. One landlord got thrown onto a fire! George II was robbed by a highway man in Kensington Gardens. I do not believe there was ever a 'golden age' when everyone lived free from fear of criminals. nell

Bryan you are right things have changed...but that is probably because in the Kray days others were not so keen to come up against them. There probably isn't any one such powerful gang around today. That doesn't say that the Krays didn't cause an awful lot of damage to the population in one way or another.... whatever way we look at it they were criminals and not nice at that! Yes, they may have looked out for some but people probably lived in fear of crossing them! As to Frankie Frazer...when he has been on television you would think butter wouldn't melt in his mouth! I know he admits certain crimes he has committed and we only have his word on what he says being true....did he really just give the boys a talking to????? Jacquie xxxxx

as a lad of 13/14 in south wales,we had just one gang of lads,aged 13/15...one day,i was in the local cinema,and a group of them,were sitting a few rows behind me,and started throwing cartons at my head,so,i stood up and told them what i thought....and it stopped. on the way home,across a field,they were waiting for me,the leader say's its between you,and one other,we wont get involved...and he kept his word. today,i would have no chance,they would set upon me,or anyone else,with baseball bats,maybe knives,and would think nothing,of leaving me for dead. this has nothing to do with the krays,but i'me just trying to say...things have changed,for the worse... bryan.

The Krays were a very nasty bit of goods as were the Richardsons.To believe all you read about them and watch on films etc.you might as well believe in the 'Tooth Fairy' And 'May' was,nt all she was made out to be.You talk about Rape Robbery Ect.Thats what they were all about,but you don,t read about it. after all that sort of thing does,nt sell books or Films.Try asking the people who worked on the London Docks What they were like,Then you may get somewhere near the truth. Hal.

Bryan, In the words of Mandy Rice-Davies : 'He would say that wouldn't he' Jean x.

Not sure whre people get the idea that mugging innocent people is a new thing - there have always been rapists, murderers and people who beat other people up. If you are the victim of a crime you are a victim. I don't believe there is any morally superior crime - ie if you are taking protection money off someone it is still stealing (and threatening violence if you don't pay). And I do get sick of all this hype about how good the Krays were to their mother as though that's an excuse. I'm good to my mother and I don't terrorise people! nell

well,this is going along nicely...lots of strong views,but all said,without it getting out of hand. one of the ..nasties..was mad frankie fraser,i've read a lot about him,and just one thing he said was..if someone in his manor,came to him,or the others,and said his son was going off the rails,and would they talk to him...they would,no violence,just strong words,and a warning,to change his ways. bryan...who would the kids take notice of today.

Nell LMHO exactly. Jean, just what I was saying, only you said it a lot better. Maybe my comments were too long to read but then so would be the books the TRUTH about the Krays and the London Gangs but they also would'nt be so entertaining as the Kemp brothers playing them in the almost fantasy film. Pat x

Roxanne, Please don't believe the hype that they only terrorised their own 'type'. What about all the small honest business men that had to pay them money every week or else their premises would be destroyed and they would no longer be able to earn a living. The Krays lived off the backs of ordinary working people. What sort of 'moral code' is that. Jean.

Well said Jean. Saying the Krays kept crime away is like saying Mussolini got the trains running on time, or that Hitler solved the unemployment problem. Please!

Over the years the Krays have been glamourized. People think because they loved their mother they were not all bad. Utter tosh. They were evil and they ruled the East End with a rod of iron. If anyone got in their way they were disposed of. They were ruthless extortionists, torturers and murderers and thought they were untouchable. Make no mistake the people of the East End which they ruled were terrified of them. I know it is only 30 years ago but the world was a completely different place then and to say they kept crime down is just ludicrous. I lived through their era so can speak first hand. Jean.

Am i missing something here ? The Krays were violent, vicious, crimnals, they committed crimes for their own gain. It is all well and good their friends and family painting this picture of them as heros, But heros they were not, violent , brutal thugs, yes that deserved the punishment they got. ShirleyAnn.

Hi Fred, I am pleased to say I totally agree with you, its not often we would be in agreement. I think the film of the Krays has done a lot of damage to glorify these vicious twins real life exploits, thats a great pity there are a couple of good books that tell the REAL story but thats lost now. People who lived in that time are FORGETTING what it was really like. Pat x

I used to go out with a guy from Hackney when the Krays were about. I always felt safe at night as the East End was kept clean by them. Yes they could be visious, but not to ordinary people, just other gangsters. Jo.

Bryan, Sarf London was a much safer place in the days when the Krays were around. Either that or a lot was hushed up. I'm not condoning criminal activity, but The South London Press newspaper wasn't full of murders, rape and robberies then, although there was a lot of stuff about that had 'fallen orf the back of a lorry'. CB >|<