General Chat

Jess, I find it impossible to answer that question. How can I tell anyone why people who don't like children teach? There are many, I can assure you. Respecting adults is a very good idea, and is how I was brought up. It is how I brought my children up. are you, or is anyone trying to tell me that ALL adults deserve respect? Quaint idea. I have lived next door to people to whom I would never give respect. NEITHER would I show them any disrespect. I would just not bother with them. BUT, that did not stop them attacking anyone they felt like abusing. I did not come on here for an arguement. I don't think I know anyone on here well enough to argue with. I did however make a comment and give an opinion on the behaviour of one (in my opinion) very stupid teacher. Deanna X

To be truthful there is good and bad people in every job. People tend to forget that even though teachers are just that, they are also parents themselves. To me i have always noticed that parents expect one thing from a school yet none of them ever ask for a copy of any of the policies so don't actually know how that school works etc, as each school is different, they all have to follow the basics and have all the procedure and policies in place, but they are not the same as the next school. yes you daughter should not have stood outside in just a tea-shirt, but there would have been a choice, either she not take part and watch while everyone else in the school takes part or she should have gone into school better dressed for the occasion ( yes i noticed you had nothing else blue ). Also i bet the teachers didnt know how long they would have been outside either.As i know myself i would not have known how long it would take to get the whole school to circle around our school, i think they did a good job if it only took 15 Min's, LOL, i know in our school it would have taken much longer. If i were your daughters teacher i would have asked her if she had wanted to take part in just a tea-shirt and also told her that if she did want to take part then she could go into the building if she felt too cold. :-) p.s i do agree with Jess about teachers do get a bad time.

Grampa Christmas, I think some people are looking at their own schooling through rose coloured glasses. When my dad went to school all that was required was that they were taught to read, write, add up and know some basic history and geography. By the time he started teaching in the late 1940s, times had moved on, the school leaving age was raised and a much wider curriculum was offered. The leaving age was raised again in the 1960s and more subjects offered. When he retired in the mid 70s he was amazed at the progress in teaching methods and by how much the children were expected to learn compared to when he started. He was also appalled at the decline in standards of behaviour. He says, as do I, that it is the job of parents to teach their children how to behave. Most teachers can teach quite well, providing children have been taught how to behave by their parents. SATs and GCSEs assess teachers as well as children. If a class usually does well in end of year tests and then suddenly does badly then the blame is attached to the teacher and quite rightly so. Every year more and more is asked of our schools - the healthy eating campaign, for example, that would never have happened when I was at school. Teachers are paid very poorly compared to others with equivalent qualifications. Some good teachers have to give up and get better paid jobs, so perhaps the general standard may be falling. Maybe we should think about paying them better. I won't defend bad teaching but there is a lot more good stuff than bad going on in schools today. The standard of literacy is rising. Very few children leave school unable to read and write, in my father's day 10% of children left school unable to read and write. Gwynne

Kracker - i never intended to imply that you were, If you took my words to be that then please accept my appologies. However i would love to know why Deanna thinks people teach if they dont like children...... jess

I notice that several people have commented about Teachers not receiving due recognition. Maybe the answer lies elsewhere. We all expect a certain standard from everyone who works. Bricklayers are expected to build walls perpendicular and straight. Plumbers are expected to not leave leaky pipes. Mathematicians are expected to be able to add up. Teachers are expected to teach. These are minimum requirements and we usually only comment about the standard if we feel it falls short of our expectations. Maybe the reason Teachers get villified is because older people compare today's teaching methods rather unfavourably against their own experiences at school? Or maybe we have come to expect a higher standard in today's world in the same way we expect our cars to take us to Scotland and back without breaking down, whereas 40 or 50 years ago you would be lucky to get to the next town and back without having to fix something. I have Teachers in my family and feel their frustrations at having to spend more time dealing with unruly pupils than in actually teaching. At the same time I personally would like to see a Test at the end of every term to establish whether the pupils had learned the course material or not. This would not only show who needs remedial lessons, but also which Teachers are ineffective, and should be moved out of the profession, so increasing the prestige and respect due to the good ones.

hi everyone, i've been out all morning and just got back. the great thing about this board is everyone is able to voice an opinion,which is why i asked for them,however there is no need to get nasty. Jess for your information neither of my daughters have a fleece or coat which is blue,i'm not stupid ,if they had they would have been wearing it.my daughter didn't just wear a t shirt but also a jumper and a coat but as i've said she wasn't allowed to wear them outside. finally i would like to say that both of my children have wonderful teachers who both my girls think are great and particually my youngest has come on leaps and bounds since being with this particular teacher. i would hate any teacher reading this to think that we as parents didn't support them,we do, but in return i expect our children to be looked after, Karen

Hi Deanna, I certainly wasn't implying that your children were yobs, please don't think that. My parents always told me to watch my mouth in school and report problems to them, this worked quite well. I was taught to respect all those in authority - teachers, the police, nurses, doctors, youth leaders, bus drivers etc. My disrespect for some of these came as adulthood did. Children should be taught (in my view) to respect all adults. It is this lack of respect that leads to a lot of yobbery, vandalism and bullying of people in the street. Parents of those responsible have to accept the blame for this kind of behaviour. If their children do not respect them they are hardly likely to respect other adults. I don't disbelieve you about there being teachers who don't like children, I just can't understand it. The working conditions are awful, the workload very onerous, in and out of school, and the pay isn't that good. If I didn't love kids I'd have quit in my first year. I don't defend bad practice in schools but I differentiate between that and fairly harmless mistakes or errors of judgement. I think some parents go off the deep end about really trivial things and often misunderstand the circumstances. (I'm not saying that is the case here) Children lie. They lie to keep themselves out of trouble, to make themselves look good to their friends and sometimes just because they can. It's part of growing up and testing the bounderies. Our job as teachers and parents is to be very firm about where the bounderies are and support each other. I always used to tell the parents of 'my' children That if they promised not to automatically believe what the children said happened in school, I wouldn't automatically believe what they said about what happened at home. Maybe I was lucky I nearly always had a lovely relationship with the parents of the children in my care. If there were problem they knew they could talk to me at any time and we were always able to sort things out. I'm now at an age where I teach the children of those I taught and many of them seem to have happy memories of being in my class and are glad that their children are with me. I'm sure I wasn't the perfect teacher and they weren't perfect children but we forgave each other our small mistakes. Most of us do the best we can and it is upsetting and soul destroying when some parents undermine our authority and make the job even harder. Gwynne.

I think we have been here before Gwynne. No teacher has ever been abused by any of my four children, but I can assure you that these same children have been abused by teachers. I did not in anyway infere that teachers should not be respected, I said that like the rest of us they have to earn it. You may have gone into teaching because you like children. The same could not and should not be said about all teachers. I did not intend for any offence to becaused by my remarks. However I have to say that the news on these boards over the last few days, does not give a good picture of people who go into teaching for love of children. I have spent a lot of time with teachers at my childrens schools. Believe me. Not all teachers are deserving of respect. I do not include you in this remark, how could I, I know nothing about you. By the same token, you cannot assume that I and my children are yobs. Deanna X

Thank goodness these days are long gone for me.... I wore a lot of blue as a child and NEVER had anything blue for my kids!! lol. Seriously ..... Jess you are right we do not praise enough.... teachers, nurses, doctors etc.... shop assistants, office workers, factory workers.... in fact anyone who gets paid to do a job... we all like a bit of praise for what we do. In general I would say we all think teachers have a hard job and mostly do it well. In saying that I'm sure Karen is also a caring parent and she is right to be upset at her child standing out in the cold with just a T-shirt. I expect she had a cardi but classrooms are usually very warm so the T-shirt was adequate for inside. A letter should have been sent explaining what was happening to the parents and then maybe something could have been catered for to borrow a blue fleece or whatever! My daughter is a manager at a Nursery School and the rules they have to work to this could not have happened. Let's praise were needed but let's also be aware that teachers are not infallible, they are after all just like us..... human. To err is human, to forgive devine!!! Jacquie.... (on her hobby horse! lol)

I've thought about this and if I'm honest Kracker, I'd agree with you. I hasten to add that hubby and I support our kids' school on the whole (unlike some parents round here, who try and jump on the 'I know my kids' rights' bandwagon) but we really do question some of the more common-sense matters that are raised. I could go on and mention incidents, but I'd be digressing from the thread. x

Deanna, My parents taught me to respect teachers and all my elders. Perhaps if parents of today did the same we would have fewer louts roaming the streets. That's not to say that they did nothing if there was a problem at school but they approached the school with good manners and things were sorted out. We go into teaching because we like children and enjoy working with them, with our qualifications we could earn a lot more elsewhere but we teach because we feel we have a vocation. As I said before we are not perfect and parents should not expect us to be unless they have never made any mistakes themselves. Do you know how many teachers are abused and assaulted by parents each year? No wonder teachers are leaving the job in droves. As Jess said it would be nice to see teachers praised on here once in a while. Gwynne

Jess My son had a blue fleece, but my daughter has hardly anything blue.(shes miss pink) And not all parents can afford to kit them out in a new top for one day. I tried to look in the shops for cheap warm blue tops, but only found some in Asda, but they diddnt have my daughters size. As said, I layered my daughters clothes with a t shirt underneath. But at our school, its so hot inside, a too thick top is going to do more harm than good. But I would have put a cardi of any colour over just a t shirt. Elaine x

Kristmas, Worried I'll be jumped on now, but you are seeking opinions. I do feel 15 mins in a shirt yesterday sounds irresponsible in yesterdays cold. However, it is hard to strongly condem it without being there for the full story. Were they allowed hats or gloves on? Was your daughter given the chance to slip her sports T-shirt underneath? Were the class rushed outside when the school got the signal, giving the teacher no time to check who was dressed warmly enough? Some teachers do have a 'toughen up and stop whinging' attitude. Others won't let them venture out until zipped up warmly. It's a mix. Just like every other walk of life. (My daughters school sports club ends after dark with them being turfed out into the icy cold in pumps, shorts and T shirt. The Headteacher has taken to standing guard by the final exit and making them dress warmly right there in the lobby before she will let them go.) RW

Karen, Hi, thanks for identifying yourself. I actually think that where the teacher was wrong was in making them stay outside. If they were not to be in the line then surely they didn't need to be there. Surely they were not the only two? And am I to assume that, although they were not in the line, they still didn't have coats on? I think your husband need to ask questions before he starts 'shouting' about it, just to get the story right. Ann Glos

Due to the extream weather yesterday, maybe it would have been a good idea to change the location to in the hall, that way all would have been better off, the teachers knew it was cold that is why they wore their coats. Bev

Sorry Deanna - that has made me cross. Not exactly been many threads praising the wonderful job a teacher has done , have there? No, because it it taken for granted. Without Quality teachers your kids would be up a gum tree jess

You are most definitely right. they should look after your child when he/she is at school. It seems to me, having read some of the threads on this site lately that todays mothers are far too lenient with todays teachers. Yes teatchers should be respected, but like all of us respect is something they must earn. Respect is not paid out with their salary. Your poor girls must have been frozen. Deanna X

If it was a wear blue day for anti bullying, why on earth, with it being so cold , didnt you layer them up in blue? Jumpers fleeces etc? I cant belive neither of them has a blue jumper or fleece, why didnt they wear it?

Hi Gwynne, i know kids do forget things but i have 2 girls there and i've phoned a couple of other parents and none of them knew.i do support the idea but i do not support children being made to stand outside on a freezing day like that.no my daughter wasn't the only one like it. my husband is going to see the headmaster on monday to ask about it.

I can understand why this has upset you, it was very cold yesterday. How many other children were wearing just T shirts? If I organised an event like that then the children would have known about the circle outside before the actual day. Maybe the teacher didn't tell her or maybe your daughter forgot what she'd been told. In her teacher's place I would have said she could go back inside, if she wanted to, but then she wouldn't have been able to take part in the circle. Perhaps the local press were there taking photos to raise awareness about bullying so it was important to see that all children were wearing blue. Teaching gets harder and harder - we aren't perfect, we make mistakes. So do children, please make sure you get the full story before you go in guns blazing. Gwynne