General Chat

How sad is that AnnCardiff.
What a good job you found out what was happening. but one of your own kin to do that is very bad you never know do you ? till it comes to the head what goes on even with family.I could never do that to anyone family of stranger. I know to be a carer you need to be paitent and show care and keep your temper otherwise it is not the job for you.
But they say what goes round comes round.

yoiu have lost nothing with the family AnnCardiff you know what happened.and you know you did the right thing.

when my lovely Dad died my Mum was left in the house on her own - a sister of hers lived round the corner in a bungalow - Auntie asked if Mum would like to live with her - they'd be company for each other - Auntie was like a second Mum to me so we all agreed

what a ghastly mistake - OK for the first couple of months but unbeknown to use Auntie was being mentally and physically abusive to Mum who was crippled top to toe with reheumatoid and osteoarthritis - Mum was afraid to say anything as she didnlt know what would happen to her

Soon as I found out Mum was out of there in a heartbeat - the rest of the family wouldn't believe it and accused me of maybe having given Auntie a heart attack!!! if only!!! Auntie continued the charade until she died - she lost the power of walk and had to rely on other people for the next ten years of her life so she then knew what it was like

The family ignored my sister and I at Mum's funeral and treated us as if we were lepers but we knew the real truth

I think with hindsight they know we were correct but things have never healed

Julia
that is a lovely story I am so pleased they let you visit anytime and let you view the place before your mother went in one . that is how it should be. after all later on in life we may need looking after and a little care and loving goes along way


I dread the thought of going into one after seeing that terrible home on the TV programme, . I have been in many hospital, London.Norfolk and Surrey and only once was I shouted at. and one of the nurses reported the other nurse to Matron. we called this nurse Attilia afterwards.she was really horrible.


Rita

We have brilliant Fillipino nurses, both male and female in our large hospital in Derby, on all he wards, and I have been a patient on many of them. They work very hard. When I was in Step Down, after a heart attack, a brilliant Afro-Carribean nurse fought very hard to make sure I did not die.
As for Nursing Homes, when it happened that my mother had to go into one, very,very locally, they invited relatives to come and have a look, before we decided if it was suitable for her.
My sister, 40 years an NHS Nurse and her husband, a Bishop, took my father, and they had a good inspection, which was very much to our satisfaction.
When Mum, was in there, we could drop in and visit at almost any hour of the day. She was kept very clean and dry, and I never saw her disturbed in anyway, as opposed to her mother in a nursing home some years previous, who was never dry... We were so impressed, we asked (jokingly) if we could put our names down, for when it was our time.
All the staff were local, and some had known their patients in a former life.
I did not watch the programme, but there are good and bad care homes, as there are good and bad nurses, no matter what their nationality is

Julia in Derbyshire

Maggie it was not the case of them being from the philipines most of them are excellent nurses.. but there again I have been in hospital when the nurses have not spoken to their patients as their knowledge of English was not good.
.
I have a friend who's son married a Phillipino nurse . he is a male nurse and they have worked in both countries no problem in fact they are working over here at the moment.

you get some people who can be very nasty to the foreign nurses but without them we would have a shortage of nurses and doctors.

My daughter in Law works with the Midwives.in the maternity unit and her wages are not good .neither is my son who is a Paramedic and works long hours for low pay he does it because he loves his job.

My other daughter in law is also a nurse on the intensive care unit..
They were not happy to see the way this elderly lady was treated. that was what I was getting at. if they come over here on a works permit and treat patients in this manner then I am sorry they should be sent back we dont need this type of person nursing in this country.

Most of these career people are low paid they always have been what ever country they have come from. They do a good job.

Rita,
I must defend the 'foreigners'. I was talking to a young woman from the Philipines = I'll call her Ann. She tried talking to one woman at the home where she works, and was very upset that the woman wouldn't talk to her because she was foreign. Ann was quite upset by this - but understood why the woman wouldn't talk to her. In the Philipines, the elderly were respected, so Ann asked to be main carer for someone who didn't care that she wasn't white/British
As for the wages - as Swiss says - they're abysmal.Not just in care homes either.
My daughter works in a maternity ward on minimum wages. Part of her job is aiding the midwife in births, running a breast feeding clinic and putting drips etc in new born babies. She carries on - even though with the cost of childcare (and our 'wonderful' government) she's now losing money - because she loves her job. Fortunately her husband's wage just about keeps their heads above water. Makes me wonder how mothers of prem babies would feel if they realised their child's life depends on someone who isn't getting a 'living' wage.

That poor woman was my first thought this morning when I woke up. Her daughter must of felt like doing him harm, I know I would!

I still believe managers were at fault..........where were they not to see that this lady was covered in bruises from head to toe. Perhaps if they were allowed to put cameras in all private rooms this would not happen to any vunerable person again.

Maggie you have hit the nail on the head.........."Old School" was a big problem in my days as a HCA ,and the person in question was about to retire having worked there for over 20years.

I watched with horror the way that poor woman was treated in a care home ? how can they be called Care Homes ?
what I saw was something you would have thought to have seen in the dark ages.not in this day . The carers seem to be more interested in wages holiday ,hours and pensions. but isnt that what we are seeing and hearing at this moment ? no one seems to care about others they are number one.
why did those carers stay in Ash Court if they were not satisifed ?because the it appears (as I understood ) came from abroad so had working permits. could that be the reason they didnt bother about Care as it should have been given? they thought no one would find out what they were up to and what they were doing .?
Good for the women daughter for taking the camera in and filming what was going on. as it appears others in that care home didnt seem to notice bruises and marks on the body of that lady . who ran the home ?surely she must have made the rounds to inspect her patients.?did they have no doctor calling in to check on the patients. ?
Those workers who abused that poor women should be sent back to their country and the Man who was jailed returned as soon as his served we dont need people like that in this country looking after the elderly. Many of these nurse from abroad are kind and do a wonderful job. I know I have been nursed by many of them.
But I think to avoid this happening again spot checks should be done on these care homes. maybe it will stop this type of thing happening again.

Well, after my Nanna went into Alzheimers for a few years & my Mum looked after her as well as having a part-time job & a husband & three teenagers she always said to me "If I get like that Susan for God's sake put me in a home!" And I always told her I would not & she didn't like that. I am glad to say she got her wish, in that she died of a heart attack at 78 after an operation so didn't end up going into a long decline. While it was an awful shock for us, especially me Dad, it was better for her. God bless Mum & Nanna. xx
Anyway I watched the Panorama programme tonight as well & feel myself lucky that my parents have passed already.

hmm - don't those awful people think that one day they will be old?

If you do something awful to someone, it comes back at you three times.

Hi Ann, I think a lot of the problems are caused by the 'We've always done it like this' brigade. The home is for the cients benefit - not the care workers!! When my gran was in a home, they constantly badgered her to 'join in' - she'd lived quite happily on her own for 40 years - why would she suddenly want to join in? I know I won't.
The 'Personal Centred Approach' course is aimed at creating a modicum of independence for the clients and kyboshing a lot of the 'They can't do that - Health & Safety' etc.mentality.
Even if you're 80and want to go sky diving, it should be your choice - you could do it if you lived in your own home. As long as reasonable precautions are made, if you die of a heart attack whilst sky diving - what a way to go!!!
I will probably end up in a home in a few decades - and I know what I would want.
I'm constantly muttering darkly at our team meetings about computers in every room being normal - so why aren't there any in council run homes?
My mum is 82 this year - and still living in her own home - well she's renting in the UK at the moment, while trying to sell her home in Portugal, and she loves her computer!!
:-D

Mersey.............There was more than blue murder I can tell you! My grandad died in 1989 and this took place the year previous, but I can still see that nurses face now.........it will never go away. I think this was one of the reasons I went to work in that field the year following his death. I so enjoyed my visits to him every week and chatting to all his friends there, and yes stories of their hard lives going through 2 world wars etc. We have it easy these days!

Maggie I attended lots of courses over the years and enjoyed them all. The point you made about giving choices is so important. It made me remember my first day in a NHS "Community Hospital" and a patient approached me in his wheelchair and asked to be taken to the bathroom. Overheard by a "long time" carer who immediately scurried towards us and declared "Well its not quite 4'oclock yet"! In other words you will have to wait!
Heres hoping those days and ways are gone forever. Keep up the good work Maggie!

I work for Hampshire County Council (which doesn't include Southampton or Portsmouth), only as admin, in a department where we train carers of adults.
Some courses are mandatory, both in the private and public sector - and free. These tend to be safeguarding courses. Others, the private sector has to pay for - but with both the free and paying courses, there's a good uptake.
One course we started last year is amazing. It makes the carers look at their 'charge' as a human being, and we discuss role reversal, set out a care plan (though it's not called that now) that takes into account what the 'charge' likes, how they want things done etc. - do they prefer a shower or bath, when they prefer their tea etc., definite likes and dislikes -and these plans are updated regularly - not just done and left.

I found it amazing that, in some homes, people were dressed by the carers - even though they were quite capable of dressing themselves!!
It is a 4 part course, and in between the sessions, some carers became so enthusiastic about doing things another way that they experimented, and reported back at the next session!!
Little things, like not giving everyone a cup of tea as they sat in their seats in the afternoon, but leaving the teapot , cups & cake on a central table.
Those capable went over to the table helped themselves to tea & cake - and started chatting!!! Those too frail to serve themselves were asked if they wanted to go to the table, where tea was poured for them - and they joined in.
It seems amazing - but small things mean huge differences.
When we occasionally held this course in a home, we even had clients attending, and declaring that they may want a cup of tea at 3am, and what could be done about that?. Well, there are night staff on duty - so why not?

I have to admit, we do have safeguarding issues, but, at the slightest whisper, my colleagues are in there like a shot . We've also found that carers who attend this course will report the slightest thing that worries them. Possibly because they know they can report it straight to one of my colleagues, rather than through the manager, and initially, they wil tread carefully to establish the facts, decide whether it's a procedural or staffing issue and take it from there, with many 'follow-ups'
.

Ann im so sorry to hear this about our Grandfather, that is so shocking, and I like you would have caused blue murder !!, and also agree with you about those in elderley care who have no family and no-one to rely on is so so sad ...There is a few in Nans home and quite a few of us try and involve them but it is not always that easy ....breaks my heart to see those who have made my life easier fighting for what the believe in and giving me my better quality of life and the are treated in such away.........

Respecting our elders was drummed into me from a very young age and I just wish more young people were shown this, as is they will be old one day and I dread to think what will happen then

I watched the programme with horror, I am a full time carer and feel utterly ashamed to think there are people like that in the proffession. I work 7dys a week with one family my client is 45yrs old and lives with his mother and is physically and mentally disabled. I would hate to think of him in residential care and being treated like that old lady was. It is not an easy job to do and can be very stressfull but I would not and could not treat him the way those carers treated that poor woman. They have been trained for the job and I don't understand why they do the job if they care so little for the people they look after, I have never been trained but have had many years experience looking after an elderly aunt and the disabled person I care for at the moment. I know my limitations and because of a recent family loss ( the death of my dad ) I feel I am not able to do the job to the best of my abilty any longer and have handed in my notice.
I hope to god there are changes made and that the people who are allowed to care for the elderly or disabled are checked more carefully and monitored better, this also applies in hospitals as there are many elderly mistreated there as well.

Diane ( Liverpool Lass ) a very upset carer :-(

So glad your nan is happy Mersey and that she has a caring family to visit her. Sadly a lot of our elderly population in these homes do not have family and are therefore more vunerable and open to abuse. A point was raised by one of the consultants that "poor wages" may be a factor for some of the anger directed at the patients. I find that hard to believe....I was not on a lot of money either I knew the score before I applied for the position.........I loved working where I did.........and many years down the line I still remember with great fondness a lot of the people I took care of.

My grandfather, my Hero had to go into residential care.........a nice home very clean and all his needs were catered for. Then a bad apple came along.......a male nurse......my grandfather had been poorly with a chest infection and did not want to get up this particular morning......he did not have to. The male nurse decided to strip his bed and threw the lot where he could not reach it. He relayed all this when I visited that afternoon..........perhaps the new nurse did not realise that he was as sharp as a new pin because at the time he was quite vunerable, well he was in for one big bl**dy shock by the time I had mrched down to the office.

I really do believe that you can give all the training there is available.....you just need a couple of bad apples to enter the mix, and sadly these can be found in both Private and NHS facilities.

Hi Ann

It made me actually want to be phsically sick...
My Nan is in a care/nursing home and I have to say she is in a lovley place with lovley people around her and staff that are fabulous....
We come and go whenever we want no matter what time of the day it is, her room and surroundings are fantastic, and thank goodness not all caring/nursing homes and the staff are the same as were that MONSTER came from.....We have made really good friends with the staff and it is so comforting to know when we have to leave she is in a safe caring and loving place......

Just have to add...........where were the managers to allow the manhandling of vunerable patients.....where were the various hoists and slip sheets etc.............why send them on training courses if you are not going to put these procedures into practice..........Have they still got their jobs!!!

Just watched the same Mersey..........so distressing. I worked for the NHS as a HCA for many years and have never seen the like of what I saw tonight.

It made me so angry I wanted to grab that fellow and give him a good kicking and see how he liked it.

He is now in prison, where I bet he wont be getting any sympathy after fellow prisoners have watched tonight programme!!!

I have watched this footage in tears......18months prison sentence for the man who assaulted that poor lady is not long enough.I am so glad that I know my Mum was well looked after and loved (even though she was quite difficult)in the home she was in.
Well done to the Ladies daughter for having the guts to put a hidden camera in to film this terrible abuse.More people should do it.