General Chat

Hi Len - good thread! Do I believe the soul can leave the body and then return? I'm not sure would be my answer. Firstly I would have to be certain that we do have souls - I'm not even completely convinced about that. Secondly, assuming we do have souls and they do have the ability to leave bodies and return, where would the souls be heading after leaving the bodies? Any why would they want to return to the shell that they have just left? I am a great 'doubting Thomas' - I am still not absolutely totally convinced that men walked on the Moon. Jacqui

Hello Len Another fascinating thread - I have nothing to add, except to echo what Diana said, in wishing we could sit around and talk for hours - might be an idea for a meet sometime LOL

I believe that the soul can travel, I have had out of body experiences all my life, they do however seem to be getting less and less as I get older. Some may mock,but I know what I have experienced, I remember one experience that I had I will always remember.. I travelled down a tunnel(lots of people say this) which was the most fantastic experience I have ever had, I did not have a religious experience as such, mine was more of a showing of my past lives, I can remember every detail,the smells, the people I met. I visited, 3 past lives,I dont know why,or for what purpose,but it happened!

hiya len another brilliant thread,as usual lol i am fascinated by the afterlife and near death experiences. you are a wise man len and i admire you give my love to mary xxxx

In 2000 when I had an op involving drilling a hole in the skull I woke up in ICU to the sound of an angelic voice.....it was the nurse.........but I did then notice that I could not see the rest of the ward because of some privacy boards or something dividing the room in sections............however I was aware that I had seen the other side of the boards and the other beds, trolleys and patients...and could desribe it if i wished to.....but I kept quiet...just happy to be alive. I don't think that I was in a situation of near death..the op was fine

Hi Len Another fascinating story and to hear you have experienced them too is even more fascinating!! I'd love to sit and really discuss this further to try and understand more. I do believe that as humans we are not IT in the world and I believe as you know in life after death.... so I totally believe this type of thing can happen when the soul leaves the body and is returned due to modern medicinal procedures! Hugs Pink xx

Hello again, Len. Not exactly 'gadding' about, more just ambling, and irritating everyone around me. But enough of me - Maggie, an atheist studying religion? Did your studies convert you to atheism? Or were they a hope to convert you FROM atheism? Is atheism another form of belief? I do believe that we humans are not the pinnacle of life; we may be on a metaphorical plateau, the rise to the summit hidden in the mist. If an amoeba thinks, could it comprehend the complexity of the world we take for granted? Take a look at this website (borught to my attention in another of Len's threads): iands(.)org/research/vanLommel/vanLommel3(.)php Just remove the parenthesese around the d.o.t.s. Rob

Hi Len, I am back at last, have had probs with the computer just before and since we returned from our holiday. I found your story interesting and don't really care what the title is, I just believe these things are possible. Liz

Sorry Len, i'm not saying 'Out of body' experiences don't happen in near death situations, just saying the two experiences - floating above the event and going down a tunnel - are known by different names, for ease of identification. maggie

Where have you been,Robert? Gadding about in foreign parts again? Have you checked out my other thread? Its getting towards a conclusion. Have you heard of 'automatic writing'? I hope to practice after I pop my clogs, and get something on GR. len

Out-of-body experiences are the belief that consciousness has separated from the physical body and is floating, usually near or just above the body. This is an experience that has been recounted thousands of time over the millennia but it has hitherto been dismissed by scientists as a mental aberration due to the extreme stress of being near to death. However, studies in Holland and Canada, notably by Dr P van Lommel of Rijnstate Hospital in Holland indicate that it is no myth but that it does actually occur. The phenomenon reported by people who have been declared as brain dead but who, by the marvels of modern science, have been revived has been carefully investigated over 300 hospitals in Holland. The memories laid down during the period of being brain dead, often giving detailed accounts of the efforts being made to resuscitate them, can only have been laid down if the consciousness’ that recorded the memories was elsewhere in the theatre, usually above and looking down.

Maggie There's not always a tunnel. I have had both a NDE and an OOB experience concurrently. I went into Guys Hospital when I was about 10 or 11, for a small abdominal op. that turned into a big one. My parents were in a nearby room and someone left the theatre to tell them that I had collapsed and died under the anaesthetic. I recall being up near the ceiling and watching the efforts at resuscitation, which eventually worked. In the recovery room, I was able to tell my parents, and the nurses, exactly what had gone on, even describing the operation (ileostomy) which was quite different from what I had been told to expect. Of course, I was severely brain-damaged. len

Hi Robert, I'm going to be pedantic again. :o) Len's description is of an 'Out of Body' experience, even though the person was near death. The two experiences have different titles. I'm also an atheist, but believe in the body being more than just a collection of electrical impulses. Where does all that energy go when we die? I have to admit I actually studied these experiences whilst doing a degree in Religion - with Colin Firth's mum as a lecturer !!! :0) maggie.

Why apologise for pedantry, Maggie? While you are right in that many report having 'out of body' experiences whilst they are nowhere near death, the case quoted by Len WAS a 'near death' experience (the medical people treating him doubted his chances for survival). These reports do raise the question as to what we are; are we really just a collection of complex electrical impulses powered by organic fuel (as believed by many, usually atheistic, people) or are we something beyond that - is our entity using the corporeal body for as-yet-to-be-determined / discovered reasons?

Interesting Len, how little we know about how the brain, so many unanswered questions.

I enjoy reading Len's contributions, too.

Sorry to be pedantic, Len but I believe these are 'Out of Body' experiences rather than 'Near Death' experiences. Daughter had one when she fell half way down the stairs aged about 18 months - 2 years. She wasn't nearly dead, but unconscious and then confused for a few minutes. As I approached her from the top of the stairs to pick her up, She shouted and screamed hysterically. When she was a little older, we were takling about it. Apparently she was looking down on herself and I had walked through her floating body!!! Near death experiences usually involve a tunnel with light at the end. maggie

There are many things beyond our present understanding. I have read many articles on this subject written by doctors, nurses and patients. The one thing that most of the patients say is that they no longer fear death. I reserve my judgement. Beryl x

Probably the majority, Robert:-) Although I always enjoy reading Len's contributions. BC

So little reponse - I wonder how many are viewing. At risk of raising too many hackles, I wonder how many prefer the more vaucous threads?