General Chat

Well!! as to whether animals have souls!! we had to have our lad (puss) put down in August.he was not himself and a visit to the vet revealed he had multiple tumours in his abdomen. was very quick from him being off colour to when he went( 2 weeks) BUT for a couple of weeks after that i got glimpses of him coming in from the garden &&& one night got the thump as he landed on the bed!! I thought it was him in my half & half state & reached out to give him a stroke only to realise he couldnt be there. So dont tell me that animals dont have a soul and cant get confused where they are if the end is sudden

Hi scarlet; Im sorry,I hope I have not offended you. I am sure that lots of Christians believe that Animals have souls, Infact In that letter I posted it has been said that the Pope prior to this one stated he believed animals have souls,which makes me very happy:-)) What would heaven be like without animals:-(( Roxanne xx

I believe that animals DO have souls... after all they are sentient beings just like ourselves.

Angel,I found this and thought you might like to read it. I was talking with a coworker the other day and he informed me that animals do not have emotions. This is just after he told me (the day that I put my dog of 17yrs down) that animals do not have souls and therefore will never enjoy the concept of heaven. Now, this coworker has the disadvantage of being, what I refer to, as a 'bible-thumper.' He is, in fact, a born-again Christian. Please bear in mind that I have nothing against Christians, nor do I have anything against religion in general. I do, however, have a problem with this coworker passing along faulty information. Animals do have emotions and they also have souls, and I'll tell you how I know that. In over twenty years of working with animals, I have never seen a kitten duct-tape a live human baby to a freeway. I also have never seen a cat find enjoyment from setting a human on fire. I've never gone hiking in the desert to find a child that dogs have left tied to a stake, without food and water, subjecting it to a painful death in the desert heat. I have never seen a chicken force two unwilling humans to fight in a ring with razor blades attached to their feet while the chickens place bets on who will be the first to die. I haven't seen a puppy place eight children in a gunnysack and drown them in a river. Neither have I seen an eagle aim a shotgun at an unarmed human. I have yet to see a bear kill a human simply to place a head on the wall of their cave. And to this day, I have not seen a pigeon drive a car down the road and aim for humans who were walking around the park. Let me tell you what I have seen. I have seen my own cats sleep next to me so they may keep me a little warmer while I was ill. I've seen my dogs play games with me just to force a smile to my face. I have seen a cat rush into a burning home not once, not twice, but six times to save her kittens, nearly losing her own life in the process. I have seen a ferret pull a frightened kitten out of a deep hole in the ground. I have seen a coyote fetch another dog so that it may get the proper medical care that it needs. I've seen a dog, who loves to jump on people, avoid jumping on me when I injured my back. I've seen elephants cry. I've seen monkeys scream in empathy when one of their own were injured. I've seen puppies whine all night long when they were separated from their mothers. I've seen a dog pull a child away from a fire. These are only a few of the things that I've seen. To list them all would take a lifetime, and I think you get my point. As for the soul thing? Well, it is my humble opinion that if you have emotions, any kind of emotions, then you have a soul. Ironically, the pope of the Roman Catholic Church recently stated that he feels the same way. Now, I can't prove that animals have souls. But then, I can't prove that you or I have one either. And for all those people who firmly believe that animals don't have souls - well, I suppose if there really is a heaven, you'll probably have the job of cleaning out all the litter boxes...

angel, Who said they dont? Oh,yes the church do I believe! well,I believe they do have souls, how can they not have souls! Infact in my beliefs they are 100% pure in everyway,we could learn alot from the animal kingdom! I am a buddhist and the buddhist teach us that animals are very spiritual beings. Roxanne

Can anyone explain to me why it is assumed that animals do not have a soul ?

In 1986 my cousin had a complete heart and lung transplant. After the operation she was able to tell her surgeon some of the things that went on in the operating theatre in fairly graphic detail; the surgeon (a world known figure in this field) was able to confirm these details. She had become quite spiritual during her illness and believed this was an out of body experience. Sadly in 1998 my cousin died but she told my aunt that the night before a very dear friend of hers (who had died the year before) had been to visit her and had shown her the 'light'. She knew that it was time for her to go and she was ready and prepared. Whether people believe or not, there are hundreds of similar stories and I for one believe it.

Research is going on all over the world and the way it is going indicates that consciousness is not a brain function. I cannot really elaborate on this here, due to lack of space. Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research under leadership of Prof R.Jahn set out to disprove that the mind could interfere with computers. They suceeded in proving the opposite. I have mentioned elsewhere about Pim van Lommel, the cardiologist in Holland and his investigation into the mind leaving the body at brain death but returning after resuscitation. Controlled experiments have been conducted into healing in Canada with positive results. There is a Chair for Psychical Research at Edinburgh Uni.and paranormal research has been done at City Uni London, under Emeritus Prof of Engineering A J Ellison. There are others but that's all I can think of right now. What keeps these people at it? and why do they come up with positive results? They are not stupid. leb

Thanks for another very interesting thread, Len. This is a HUGE topic, so suffice it to say that, yes, I do believe, as much as I can believe in anything I don't have direct experience in or proof of. (That covers pretty much everything! :-) I love the idea of magnets on our feet to keep us on the flat earth!!!

Len, There are more things in Heaven and Earth than we mere mortals can ever possibly understand,and yet they happen,and usually for a reason,which we again cannot understand, I,ve been through two of these experiences and still marvel and wonder about them. Hal.

Gaynor,Im so pleased for you:-) I too have experienced this when my Father passed 7 years ago,It gave me a huge amount of comfort to know hes happy and that one day I will see him again. Roxanne xx

Fascinating Len... I too, like Diana, wish I could discuss further... I believe in life after death without doubt now since Mum passed away. I have experienced such things myself recently that I can not question it. I am not psychic nor am I a medium however I have spoken with Mum and she has shown me the beautiful light of which everyone speaks (well I can only assume that is what it is for it was certainly a very very bright white light all around, although I had the impression that there was much more beyond) and she tells me she is happy and everything is ok, she has done so on several occasions now... She has also discussed other personal things with me but for obvious reasons these issues are private and I won't discuss on the board. Gaynor

I believe the Soul,spirit or whatever you like to call it,is seperate from our bodily form. If all we are is flesh,bones and muscle. then what makes us all so very different? Outwardly we are different, but our organs including the brain are the same, we would be like a programmed computer surely. N.D E and astral travel are documented all over the world,each person who has experienced them gives the same or very similar accounts of their experience. My experiences have not been N.D.E but I know what I felt and to me they were very real. Maybe as someone said earlier it could be wishfull thinking,religious background,drug induced halucinations(with N.D.E due to medication). I still like to believe our Soul lives on after death and it is my belief it does,we are all so unique, there has to be more to it than just scientific explanations, even scientists dont know,I guess none of us will know until we pass. Roxanne

Hi Len - of course the earth is flat! it's the magnets we all have in our feet that keep up from falling off the end! lol lol This thread has really set me thinking! The 'soul' - the essential part or fundamental nature of anything. I assume in a human being then that the soul definition of soul is the heart/brain/lungs etc etc - all essential parts of a body. If any or all close down and cease to function, then surely the 'soul' is no more? I'll keep pondering. Look forward to reading further postings - this is most interesting. Jacqui

Hi len Do you not think that as humans we have genes, what our for fathers has passed down to us , ie souls, the tunnel of lights the fear of god, politiics how to bring the kids up etc.. As someone who cared for a parent before their death and seen the distance in how they became dependant on morphine. With others, with another kind of medication, maybe due to an operation. Could it be the state of mind near to death or the fear of the operation that is with the drugs, or do we wish we can have the last one chance of wisdom fear guilt hope, or if i could only done it bettter, I dont know Len interesting thread The fear of the unknown Can it become hysteria or faith. Doris

Aw Len, I love your posts they are always interesting and I learn things from you too. Remembering them is a different matter! Will read this through tomorrow and comment, but not to tell you to go away! ;-))

I am reading your thread Len. I spend hours reading all your threads which I find very interesting indeed. Janet

Must take you to task, Robert. You infer that I had stopped thread making. 'Glad to see you contributing again,Len)' Actually, I have put up 7 threads so far this month - and as many last month. Trouble is no one comments so they get lost in the ether. A 'get lost' message would at least mean someone is reading. Len

I'm a bit like you Jacqui - at least, in philosophy. I am sure the earth is flat. Len

Lovely to see you back Len, I was in bed when you posted last night, I truly believe cases such as this happen more than we can ever know, Caz xxx