General Chat

Sylvia, that's certainly putting that building to good use - even though some may get over zealous with grass maintenance :-D

We have churches where the buildings are used jointly - usually by Anglican/Methodist groups. They use their own forms of worship but in the building.

I have friends who became attached to a church which meets in a cinema. It is one of those large cinema complexes which has about 12 different theatres within it , and it seems that they must rent one each week. Very informal but they love it. :-)


Emma - some of the Gaelic blessings have such wonderful words which I have often used. Thank you.


John, I don't know what to say except that I realise that you have got yourself into a pickle on more than one occasion on the boards. I think that sometimes we have to remember that our everyday humour and manner can be mis-transcribed when put into the written word.


On to a prayer for today.......it's the prayer of St. Patrick. I know the most famous verse of it, but hadn't realised that there was more to it. Very encouraging words they are too.......


The Prayer of St. Patrick

I arise today
Through the strength of heaven;
Light of the sun,
Splendour of fire,
Speed of lightning,
Swiftness of the wind,
Depth of the sea,
Stability of the earth,
Firmness of the rock.


I arise today
Through God's strength to pilot me;
God's might to uphold me,
God's wisdom to guide me,
God's eye to look before me,
God's ear to hear me,
God's word to speak for me,
God's hand to guard me,
God's way to lie before me,
God's shield to protect me,
God's hosts to save me
Afar and near -
Alone or in a multitude.


Christ shield me today
Against wounding
Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me,
Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ on my right, Christ on my left,
Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down,
Christ in the heart of everyone who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of everyone who speaks of me,
Christ in the eye that sees me,
Christ in the ear that hears me.


I arise today
Through the mighty strength
Of the Lord of creation.

- Amen.


Cx :-)

Thank you Cynthia.

My little contribution of a traditional Gaelic Blessing for all.

May the road rise up to meet you.
May the wind be always at your back.
May the sun shine warm upon your face.
The rain fall soft upon your fields
and until we meet again.
May God hold you in the palm of his hand.

Have a lovely day all.

Emma :-)

Sylvia. Sorry. I did understand exactly what you wrote about different churches in same building. Grass cutting sounds quite a job. :-)

Cynthia. Lovely thoughts to start the day. :-)

On a more serious note, it would not surprise me if this is the last time I contribute to this thread. Loads of reports against me this weekend - one for saying that I genuinely liked another poster!!!! I have really enjoyed all posts on this thread and hope I have made one or two reasonably interesting contributions myself.

My initial reason for coming onto chat was that I was upset with the new format 11 months ago and wanted to see if I was alone in my criticism. I then remained (perhaps a bad decision) because I felt I was friendly, could be informative (I felt I had something to contribute) and funny. I think my sense of humour (which comes across fine in my daily life) has not come across well on this media. :-(

Hope everyone has a lovely and prayerful day :-) :-)

Good morning all..... :-)

Some gentle thoughts.....


Prayers are the stairs
we must climb every day,
If we would reach God
there is no other way,
For we learn to know God
when we meet Him in prayer
And ask him to lighten
our burden of care.


So start in the morning
and, though the way’s steep,
Climb ever upward
‘til your eyes close in sleep—
For prayers are the stairs
that lead to the Lord,
And to meet Him in prayer
is the climber’s reward.

- Helen Steiner Rice


Hope everyone has a good day...... :-)

John

these churches have not "joined together" .......


.................... they are instead different churches sharing the same building, but practising their own faiths in their own ways within that building.


Most of them don't even interact together, other than in the maintenance of the property ................. the Filipinos took over maintenance of the grounds of the church across the street because they considered that contracting it out to a landscaping company was costing too much


The changeover period last year was quite funny to watch ...................


there had been a lack of communication somehow, but the grass (and there is a LOT!) was mown 4 times in 1 week :-D

Sylvia. :-) :-) That was very much the case in India. Methodists, Independents and Anglicans (not sure about Pentecostals and Baptists) joined together some years ago into CSI and CNI (Church of Southern and Northern India). People ask first if you are Christian, then RC or Protestant, then the rest doesn't really matter at all. We are all different and interpret Bible passages in slightly different ways.

I do feel that we spend 80% of time discussing buildings and 20% discussing salvation in UK. And we do not have the luxury in 21st century of all these nuances of doctrine. We need to work together, pray together and worship together.

Just a couple of notes about joint churches ..................

I live across the street from a church.

It is owned by a Canadian Baptist church, which has greatly diminished in numbers attending over the years. So they rent space to 2 other churches

On a Sunday .........

......... the Chinese Baptist Church meets at 9 or 9:30 am to about 10:45 am

......... the Canadian Baptists meet from 11 am to 1 pm

......... the Filipino Baptist Church meet from 1 pm to about 2 or 3 pm

Each of the churches also has meetings on one evening during the week or Saturday morning.

They each use the former manse as a social meeting area.

Members of the Filipino Church take care of the grounds.


Second, there is a church that serves the university community that has been a joint Anglican and Roman Catholic Church for at least 20 or 25 years. They share the building but not services.


OH goes to a small Anglican Church ............ and for several years they used to hold a annual joint service with a nearby United Church. That has not happened for about 5 years ........ it depends so much on the attitude of the ministers of the churches.


My s-i-l is an Anglican vicar in a small (ca 5,000 residents) northern town. There is only one church of each denomination in the town. If one minister is on holiday or sick, a minister of another will often stand-in if necessary ............. eg, for funerals, or to take a Sunday service.

My s-i-l has taken services at the Roman Catholic, Unitarian, Mennonite, and Dutch Reformed churches, that I know of ............. she may have also ministered to other congregations.

One Easter Sunday, she took services at 3 churches!

Daughter has but I haven't seen them yet. :-)

Cyns

Have you taken photos this year .? .....

xxx

Nice one Rose.........reminds me of the two posters side by side on a church notice board.......


The first one said...

WHAT IS HELL LIKE?


The one next to it ....

COME AND HEAR OUR CHOIR SING.


:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D


John, a joint church is a good idea in theory.....but.....................that's probably as far as it will ever get, knowing human nature etc.etc. ;-)



Okay. As far as today went - I am truly glad to sit down. Had to get up at 5.45 so that OH got his medication right in time for an altered church service time. Two baptisms during the one service this morning - the sun certainly brings the revealing dresses out!! :-0 :-D


Home for a quick salad lunch and off again for the annual Walk of Witness. As Sylvia has said, it used to be the time when everyone got new clothes and I can remember the pretty dresses we used to wear in the Lancashire town where I lived.


Today, however, things are different - up to a degree. We have a Rose Queen who has a retinue of little girls and they wear matching dresses, but they are dresses which can be worn again and they were very pretty - dark blue with pink and white polka dots and a lovely bright pink bow on the shoulder. Apparently from BHS shhhhhhhhhhh....

The Sunday School children wore black and white in some form - as did their teachers.......

The youth organisations wore their uniforms.

We amassed at the allotted venue ready to start the procession at 2.pm. The sun was beating down and, after a rendition of 'The church's one foundation', off we set.....

We were led by the church cross, followed by a banner proclaiming 'Churches Together in Xxxxxxxx'.

Then came the choir and the clergy and, behind them.......literally hundreds of men, women and children from 3 churches in the area.

The bands were playing; the large and small banners were proudly carried; lots of people came out of their houses to watch the long procession pass and there was much laughing and waving going on. Everyone was happy and smiling...... :-)

We wound our way across the main road (stopping traffic for a few minutes) and through various types of housing developments before wending our way back to where we had started.

A good day and a day where so many are proud to witness their Christian faith in these days of so much secularism and apathy.


Cx :-)

:-) :-) @ Rose.

I was at a large chapel today - very well attended. Chatting afterwards and so many of us parents could not come with our children and OH's because they are working Sundays. And earning good money on time and a half usually.

Sunday is first day of week, when Jesus rose from dead etc but I wonder whether we need to be so rigid these days. God meets with his people when 2 or 3 are gathered in the name of Jesus - any day or time.

One possible thought is that we could be far more ecumenical and have far fewer churches but far more services in that church.

In a large town, we could have one main church with services at 9am, 11am, 5pm and 7pm. They could be led by an Anglican, a Methodist, a Baptist and a Pentecostal and we could chop and change which we attended according to our convenience.

I hope this will give you the same smile it gave me, please believe this is not mocking :-)

I've just walked past the community hall which has many and varied uses, but today it is a used in the morning by a local Christian group. The Methodist hall has the poster 'God is Awesome' , and there are many variations outside the churches...but I was struck by the small but very clear notices outside the community hall:

"Meet Jesus Here!"

two of those and then just by the gate, "Every Sunday, except those Sundays at Bank Holidays"

It made me smile to think that perhaps Jesus took the bank holidays off also :-)

Lovely words, Cynthia to get our day off well.

Wesley sat in that chair!!! Probably too small for my fat bottom - he was only 5'3" and less than 9 stones.

A great friend of mine is 87 and what is called a supernumerary Minister (retired ordained man). He preaches more than I do, and - although he is not as vigorous as a few years ago, he is still out most Sundays and still works pretty hard.

He was a headmaster up in Yorkshire till his 50's and a local preacher (lay reader) for many years. He then got a call, resigned from education and trained for Ministry. So similar to your man. Many Methodist Ministers have had previous careers, and it probably helps them.

In my prayers this morning, I am particularly thinking of two elderly gentlemen. Nelson Mandela (breathing on his own in hospital this morning, but still serious and stable) and Prince Philip (who is recovering slowly from his exploratory operation last Friday). I just pray they will both know God's peace upon them today, and will be healed according to His will. :-)

ah ......


the Whit Sunday Walk


we always had brand new clothes for it.

I do wonder if the clergy who were concerned about their flock becoming too enthusiastic about their faith, were very unsettled. It was the period where many families fulfilled the Noblesse Oblige 'duty' ethos, where the first son had a duty to the estate, the second son had a duty to his country and the third son went into the church - whether he was religious or not!!! It must have been very difficult for someone who may not have any faith or interest in religion, to become a clergyman out of duty!!


Thankfully, most folk now enter the ministry having had a sense of being 'called'. In fact, we have a man in our congregation who has been a Lay Reader for quite a few years, who now feels 'called' to become ordained into full time ministry. He is still of working age and there are many things for him to consider but.....when God calls.............................


Several years ago, I went to visit an elderly couple and, as we were chatting, they pointed out a very small wooden chair in the room. They then went on to explain that it had originally belonged to the Wesley family and it was fascinating to think that the Wesley brothers had actually sat in it as children. :-)


Today is our Walking Day - a tradition which has been carried out for many generations in the North of England. Very similar to the famous Whit Walks.


Members of all the local churches in the area will turn out at 2pm to begin this annual Walk of Christian Witness to the community. We will be accompanied by bands and banners and, usually, the police or marshalls of some sort. It is quite a sight to behold as there are usually hundreds of children and adults who turn up. At least the weather is going to stay good and I will let you know how we get on later.......:-)

Meanwhile, we have a church service with 3 baptisms to attend first.........


A prayer for today


NO PRAYER GOES
UNHEARD

Often we pause and wonder
When we kneel down to pray
Can God really hear
The prayers that we say....

But if we keep praying
And talking to HIM,
He'll brighten the soul
That was clouded and dim,

And as we continue
Our burden seems lighter,
Our sorrow is softened
And our outlook is brighter.

For though we feel helpless
And alone when we start
Our prayer is the key
That opens the heart.

And as our heart opens
The dear Lord comes in
And the prayer that we felt
We could never begin

Is so easy to say
For the Lord understands
And gives us new strength
By the touch of His hands

- Helen Steiner Rice


Cx :-)

"John Wesley was an Anglican priest to the end. Just a bit of a maverick really"

Hmmm!!! That is one way of putting it. I would describe him as the leader of the evangelical wing of the established church through most of teh Great Awakening of 18th century. He would encourage his devotees to attend their parish church in morning and then attend local Bible groups in the afternoon organised by his Society for People Called Methodists.

Methodists wanted to remain in the Anglican fold but many Vicars and Bishops thought they were too "enthusiastic" about their religion and prevented them from sharing bread and wine, or even being buried, marrying or baptising their children.

This happened 200 years ago and Methodists have just about forgiven Anglicans. :-)

I think you can still find Helen Steiner Rice's words in many thoughtful cards today. She seemed to be able to articulate words which many of us struggle with - being able to say the right thing at the right time.... :-)


Ruby, the main difference between Anglicans and Presbyterians lies in the structure rather than the belief. They don't really 'do' hierarchy' :-)


John Wesley was an Anglican priest to the end. Just a bit of a maverick really ;-)

Incidentally, I am unashamedly Arminian. Not in sense that I follow Arminius's doctrine. He was a Dutch scholar 400+ years ago who proposed 5 principles of faith that were the opposite of what Calvin proposed.

But I do fully agree with teaching of Wesley - who has been described as a three and a half point Calvinist. John Wesley and I are of one mind on the interpretation of scripture. I have frequently preached in Calvinist chapels ( two in particular) and told them clearly I was a Methodist and an avowed Wesleyan. And there have been no problems - they keep asking me back. :-) :-)

Lovely thoughts, Cynthia. Have grown up with thoughts of Helen Steiner Rice. I seem to remember my grandmother used to read her words of wisdom every day, and she died in 1966.

Have just wickied her and her life is a tremendous inspiration for anybody. How she overcame so much tragedy is beyond my words. But full of admiration.

Good question, Ruby. I will have a go. The Church of England is very inclusive and run on episcopal lines. That is, there is a structure of government with Justin Welby and the Queen at the top and many Bishops and Archbishops throughout the world. The doctrine in neither Calvinist or Arminian, but includes both Protestant traditions. People can be members whether they believe, for example, that everyone can be saved (universal atonement) or just the elect (particular redemption).

Presbyterian churches differ in two respects from C of E: 1. the doctrine (teaching) is exclusively Calvinist - they base their constitution around the five points of Calvinism. 2. Church governance is usually within the local church by a group of "elders". They make their decisions within a presbytery of elders. Often a Presbyterian church is completely independent, but most also have close links with similar churches, including the Church of England and sister churches throughout the world.

I love that Cynthia. It is so true.

Last Sunday I wasn't able to go to church, but I watched a service on TV from a Presbyterian church in Charlotte, which I enjoyed very much. This area was settled by many people from The British Isles, and there are a lot of Presbyterian churches around me. The service looks to be the same as the C of E. I wonder whether there are any differences in beliefs between the two denominations? I am going to visit sometime.

Thank you for your daily words of comfort Cynthia and John.

Ruby.