General Chat

And Shirley didn't see that I posted the Rebbie marriage on page 1. ;)

There's no evidence that Rebbie was born in Birmingham, apart from the statements on the 1901 and 1911 census. No Rebbie and no Rugg birth in the right time and place.

(I even looked at births with second name Letitia in Birmingham 1890-1891, and nope, a Violet Robinson and a Helena Rudge -- Helena is in the 1911 census.)

So you're going to get Lucas's birth certificate? All else is speculation without Jessie's name!

Not sure of the details of Joseph going to America, your right about Rebbie, she was born in Birmingham and ended up working as a servant in solihull, i don't know to many details of Rebbie. Only she isn't the daughter to Joseph?

The plot gets thicker, as i didn't know about Rebbie.

Margaret

There's a J Rugg on Ellis Island records for 1893...he's the right age, but can't read occupation?

no birth reg but seems it a legit name

Marriages Sep 1927

Rugg Rebbie L Webb Birmingham N. 6d 1195
WEBB Charles C

If Jessie was either Jones or Bryant there doesn't appear to be a birth for her? so maybe given as Janey suggest that Rebbie sounds American, possibly Joseph did go to US and brought back American wife?

Well we have the marriage cert for Grace who married a Morris, but shame she died in child birth at the the age of 27. No we don't have a death date for Joseph at the moment. We have been trying to track Grace, but that seems to be a problem to sort first.

Thanks again to all for looking, been a long time since i asked for help and still some lovely helpful people on this site.

Margaret :D

You say that Aymers (Rugg) went to America (the United States?). Is there any chance that Joseph did too, accounting for him not being found in the 1891 census?

Who is this in 1901?

Name: Rebbie Rugg
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Joseph Rugg
Mother's name: Jessie Rugg
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Aston

Joseph Rugg 48
Jessie Rugg 33
Rebbie Rugg 10
Grace Rugg 7
Lucas Rugg 4


Marriages Sep 1927
Rugg Rebbie L Webb Birmingham N. 6d 1195

1911
RUGG REBBIE LETITIA 1891 20 Solihull Warwickshire - servant


No birth of a Rebbie to fit. That's a pretty unusual given name -- and pretty American sounding.

well as you cant match up to Graces birth cert and you know she had siblings, then as we have said you need to get one of the other childrens certs.

Grace married as Rugg
Marriages Mar 1914

Rugg Grace E Morris Aston 6d 573
spouse MORRIS Alfred H

Not a great match on the birthdate in 1911, but not unusual:

Name: Jessie Rugg
Birth Date: abt 1873
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1938
Age at Death: 65
Registration district: Birmingham
Registration County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 457

Why do you think she was Jessie Jones?

Not seeing any death for Joseph James Rugg.

Well divorce wasnt an option then Some parted and then did remarry ,bigamously ,but looks like Joseph didnt as there's no marriage cert to Jessie

Thats another problem lost on the Jessie Jones, maybe following the wrong tree there, thats why we are trying to find Grace Rugg to see if she is the mother. As we can't find a marriage for her to Joseph but he could still have been married already?

Thanks again
Margaret

Forgot to check the actual 1991 census page says 8 children 2 died so that looks like the two children we have posted.

I certainly agree with the proposal of getting Lucas's birth certificate to learn the mother's full name.

For the birth Shirley suggested

Births Mar 1894
Bryant Grace Emily Birmingham 6d 171

there is no childhood death under that name, and no marriage of a Grace E Bryant in that vicinity.

So you have the situation I have in my Hill/Monck family: the appearance from nowhere of a Grace Emily with one surname, and the birth and subsequent disappearance of a Grace Emily with another surname who matches for birthdate and location.

(My Ernest Hill was born and married and had a child, his wife died shortly after, in 1873, and he disappeared forever. Ernest Monck then appeared in 1881 and became my gr-grfather. I matched them up the way Shirley did with Grace Emily. We see quite a lot of this on the Find Ancestors board, where questions like this are best posted.)

so the marriage I posted was him I deleted it cos he said he was single in 1881 ??
Marriages Jun 1876

Aymers Douglaseanie Loughbro' 7a 223 >>>
Mulford Caleb Loughbro' 7a 223
Neal Fanny Loughbro' 7a 223
Rugg Joseph James Loughbro' 7a 223 >>>

so explains why no marriage cert to Jessie

-----------------------------------------


could be another child
Births Jun 1899

Rugg Jessie Elizabeth Aston 6d 356

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Sep 1900

Rugg Jessie Elizabeth 1 Aston 6d 208

not finding them in 1891

So she was Jessie JONES...?

Gwyn

Joseph was married to Aymers she went to America, it crossed my mind her was a bigamist. or would have if he married Jessie Jones. Will get a birth cert for one of the children.

Thanks for all you help in looking.

Margaret

hes single in 1881
GORDON, William H Head Married M 30 1851 Tinsmith
Southampton
Hampshire VIEW
GORDON, Mary Ann Wife Married F 38 1843
Christchurch
Hampshire VIEW
GORDON, William A Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar
Southampton
Hampshire VIEW
GORDON, Mary L Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar
Southampton
Hampshire VIEW
RUGG, Joseph J Boarder Single M 27 1854 Model Maker Engine (M)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Truro
Cornwall VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG11 Piece:
1206 Folio:
61 Page:
16

Registration District:
Southampton Sub District:
Southampton Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Southampton St Mary Municipal Borough:
Address:
21, Derby Road, St Albans Ter, Southampton St Mary County:
Hampshire

just noticed this birth and death which might be first child?

Births Jun 1892 (>99%)


Rugg Joseph Birmingham 6d 45

Deaths Jun 1892 (>99%)


Rugg Joseph 0 Birmingham 6d 25

I would certainly buy one of the other childrens birth certs to see Jessie's name.

After 1875 births had to be reg so Grace must be there somewhere