General Chat

Thank you so much for all your advice - believe me until I posted this I thought I was unique and alone
Tomorrow I have a meeting with HR during which I will be bringing to their attention the company's failure of their duty of care to help me with my stress levels (which first manifested way back last year in a growth under my tongue...fortunately this was a traumatised gland caused by what other ....stress).
They have breached so many internal regs and rules i.e. no support, no time and motion on what I'm expected to do etc etc...tomorrow could be fun!!!!

Sorry to hear your story, but this is happening more and more, sadly in well known companies and in public office too.

I strongly beleive it is a reaction to the anti-discrimination legislation brought in by this government which has backfired on the people it was supposed to help.

I worked for a well known B Bank for allmost 40 years when I was subject to the same a few years ago. I was increasingly asked to undertake tasks that were more suited to a much younger person then was criticised for my performance. Age, of course had nothing to do with it, officially, ha, ha.

Their other trick, which was actually condoned by HR who issued secret clandestine instructions how to do this to their managers, was to try and wear you down to the point where you threw in the towel.

The last thing you should do is to go off sick with a stress related complaint. Barclays (oops) Bank saw this as an opportunity to commence exit procedures. They do this by claiming that you have failed your performance targets - which technically you have as you have been absent from work - usually after about six months of sick leave, and then invoke disciplinary action which inevitably results in dismissal.

Fortunately I was lucky in some respects as I was able to leave after 37 years with a redundancy package which nearly made up for the loss in my pension for leaving early.

Is there anyone at a relatively senior level that you can confide in and ask for advice and what, realistically, your future and possible options with this company is?

So much helpful information and words of support - thank you all so much.
Its nice just knowing I'm not the first to suffer from this.
Have asked HR for a copy of the company policy on stress and they looked a little on the worried side as they handed me the leaflet. But at least they now know officially that I am far from happy

I am sorry for you Colin, especially as jobs are hard to come by these days. As one of the older generation, I had the privalege of looking for other work, finding it, and then just going in and saying I am leaving tomorrow, as I dont like how such and such is done. If they said work a weeks notice, I said no , you have not looked after me, I am not bothering about you.

I think this happened about three times in my working life of 50 years.

One job the Manager was so very nasty, but I then heard he was dismissed afterwards, and they asked me to go back, but I was happy in the job I found.

The last job I had, I was not able to park, and no transport was laid on to bring us from another district, where it meant getting on three buses, so I just left. Was asked to go back with parking a couple of months later, but was quite happy then staying at home as I was of retirement age.

Mo

Morning Colin,

Sorry to hear you are having problems at your place of work.

In the early seventies I was bullied by one of the Director that I worked for and as a result developed a stomach ulcer. Those days we were going through another economical crises and everyone hung on to their jobs tooth and nail, regardless of the working conditions. There was no protection from your bosses like there is today.

All these years later I still have horrid nightmares about that woman, who is long gone in life but not in my brain.

Take care!

Lindy xx



Lindy

I had a different kind of "bullying". When I was in my fifties, a very attractive 22 y.o. had a 'thing' about older people and used to whisper to others and let me see that she was talking about me. She also said nasty things about my older friends in other departments. The others liked me and looked embarrassed, but she had some kind of a 'hold' over them so they just hung their heads. I didn't bite at anything she said (which annoyed her).

Many times, I thought of leaving, but each time I would think "If I left this week, come next pay-day, she will still get her pay, and I won't be here to get anything". The idea of me 'paying' to leave didn't sit well and I stuck it out. I also had my ten year anniversary coming up and that, too, would affect my pay - so I stayed and ignored her. She eventually left before I did and I stayed for as long as it suited ME!

He added: “At least employees do have recourse to employment tribunals. It may take months, the law is slow, but eventually an employment judge will try to see that justice is done.

“And of course good employers, including many of the older firms, do manage their staff very well. Really good firms treat their staff like family. It is mostly cowboys who think they can behave like outlaws.”





An employee who suffered stress after being forced to work up to 20 hours a day at an electronics firm is suing for breach of contract.

David*, who was in a managerial position in the Norfolk firm, said the demands put on him by his employers increased over several years and he ended up working extremely long days with only a few hours rest while working on deals with customers, some of which involved long hours travelling.

He said the work left him unable to spend time with his family and despite raising the issues with his bosses no action was taken to lighten his work load.

One day he walked out after being pushed too far. He went to his doctor and was signed off with stress.

He said: “Other companies will have a team of people to do the work I was expected to do. The work load got more and more and the working environment got unbearable.”

A dispute following about 15 redundancies at a furniture company led to one member of staff being physically attacked by the managing director.

James*, who had worked at the firm for just over a year, was half way through his notice period after being laid off when he was assaulted by the owner and director.

The employee, a father-of-three, said: “One day the managing director came up shouting and swearing at everybody, he was really going for it and accusing staff of stealing money from the company.

“I turned around and said you can't talk to me like that, and he grabbed me by the throat and started throwing me all over the place. I was told to leave the premises.”

He demanded the director be fired, according to company policy, but says his calls were ignored, and former colleagues who witnessed the alleged attack did not submit statements, which James believes is because they were afraid of being sacked.

And he said his bosses failed to follow the correct procedure in the redundancy process.

He added: “I was never approached about the timescales involved in the redundancy process or offered alternative employment within the company.

“They have lied to me and haven't followed procedures and now they have closed ranks against me. They have behaved outrageously.

“This has really badly affected me and my family. I am now in debt.”

A Norfolk driver was forced to leave work with depression after claims he was bullied by a former colleague.

Derek*, an experienced transport worker, says his life was made a living hell after suffering months of abuse by a fellow member of staff, and said he was forced to drive vehicles that were not fit to drive.

He says safety checks were not conducted and the buses were often filthy, and sometimes pets were allowed on the buses in breach of the rules.

Despite raising the issues with his employers he claims they did not take action to prevent the bullying and safety and cleanliness problems and was told by his doctors not to return to work if he wanted to recover.

He is now planning to take his former company to an employment tribunal for whistle-blowing and breach of contract.

He says the depression has affected him so badly he is now not in a safe state to drive.

He said: “My livelihood has been ruined and it has really screwed me up.”





Unfair dismissal

Dismissal where there is no fair reason for doing so, where correct processes were not followed or where a member of staff is dismissed for an automatically unfair reasons, such as taking maternity leave.

Failing to give a fair reason for redundancy is also a form of unfair dismissal.



Constructive dismissal

When an employee is forced to quit their job against their will because of their employers' conduct.

To prove constructive dismissal, former employees need to prove their bosses committed a serious breach of contract, that they felt forced to leave because of that breach and that the worker has not done anything to suggest they have accepted the breach in conditions.

For more information on employee and employer rights visit government website www.direct.gov.uk

Coincidentally, just found this on our local newspaper on line.

You're Fired - the inside track on dismissals


Increasing numbers of workers are taking their former employers to tribunals, accusing them of unfair treatment and failing to follow the correct protocols. Photo: James Bass.
SAM WILLIAMS
17 June 2009 13:00



With many companies struggling to make ends meet, getting rid of staff can be the only way to stave off administrators. But sometimes bosses fail to follow due process or treat their workers fairly. SAM WILLIAMS reports on a rise in unfair dismissal claims.

In times of recession, many companies hit by lower incomes are forced to consider reducing their staff to make ends meet.

But rising numbers of workers are taking their former employers to tribunals accusing them of not following protocols and unfair treatment.

Nationally the number of employment tribunals over redundancies are up 65pc over last year, with claims related to unpaid redundancy pay up 26pc. Unfair dismissal claims were also up 11pc.

And the trend appears to be reflected in the city.

Gordon Dean, partner at Gordon Dean Solicitors on Magdalen Street in Norwich, which also has offices in Church Plain Yarmouth, said: “We have seen a significant increase in inquiries, including a big increase in redundancy claims and withholding wages, in which employees don't get their last week's or month's wages.

“A lot of that is going on. Employers are not paying people when they lay them off. It's fairly nasty out there.

“More people are being made redundant in the recession, particularly in retail. Lots of shops are laying people off. Professional services firms are also laying people off in large numbers and legal companies, accountants and architects, building surveyors and banks.

“It's going to get worse. We haven't had the GCSE or college or university students finishing their courses and looking for jobs when there won't be any. It's going to be very difficult and I can see unemployment shooting up in the autumn.”

Often, Mr Dean said, problems are associated with companies failing to recognise the entitlements their workers have under employment law - and the most common offenders are smaller companies.

He added: “Very often employers fail to recognise that everyone is entitled to one week's pay unless it is for gross misconduct.

“Lots of smaller employers think they can lay people off and say don't come in tomorrow, end of story.

“But of course that's not the end of the story, they need to give a week's pay.

“Bigger firms tend to have employment personnel resources and tend to know what the rules are and they go through the motions.

“They say they have no choice but to make redundancies and take another month doing that.”

But with some employers desperate to save money and reduce their staff headcount, Mr Dean said many workers were being sacked on flimsy grounds - leading to more claims for unfair dismissal.

He added: “People are getting dismissed much more easily than they used to. We are seeing people laid off because they are ill, or things like having a broken leg, which is very bad practice and in some cases comes very close to disability discrimination.

“People are also being dismissed on allegations of dishonesty. One person was laid off by a supermarket for eating a chocolate bar at work and not paying for it. On this occasion he had forgotten to pay, despite having paid every other time.

A lot of people are also being dismissed on false grounds, such as bus drivers accused of driving badly just because a member of public thinks they were driving too fast, even though most drivers will get some complaint against them at some time, or care workers when somebody grumbles that they have been rude when there probably isn't a care worker in the country who has not had a complaint made against them.

“When in the past they would have just been asked to apologise or be more polite, these days they just get the sack. People are looking to cut costs and lay off staff.”

Another trick cash-strapped companies may employ when staff leave is to hold back their pay.

Employers may delay paying for several months, knowing they will not be forced to pay up at a tribunal for at least three months.

While the practice may help ease firms' cash-flow problems it can cause serious problems for those out of work with bills to pay.

Mr Dean added: “Companies can delay payment for three months and there is nothing the former employee can do. The employers know they will have to pay but they delay it as long as they can.

“It's very rough on people who have been dismissed and are worried about paying their bills and their mortgages, and it is very difficult to get a job.”

But he said workers do have means to challenge decisions they find unfair and many companies do look after their staff and ensure they are treated fairly.

Don't know if anyone else has put this site up, but it's a damn good place to put it into perspective:

http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/bully.htm#Why

I feel for you, Colin.
I was bullied for over 2 years by my line manager. I started when the council started a trial of people having IPP's - a sort of personal achievement plan, that , if you reached it, meant you got a pay rise.
This is overseen by your line manager - the person above you who in all reality had no idea of management and (in my case and many other's) wasn't management material at all - just someone who had been in the job longer.
I kept a diary. Just came home and wrote down what had happened, in my own words and, as it wasn't for 'public consumption' didn't care what I wrote - just had to get it out of my system. Not only was it my line manager, but she managed to create an atmosphere where I couldn't do my work properly, and her 'pal' managers thought it fun to join in - and she enabled them to do this by devising 'Admin support' forms, where they could comment on my work, but I couldn't comment on the handwriting/lack of information etc. - I was accused of being 'nitpicking' if I did, and the very small box was removed from the form!
The council offered counselling for those being bullied - but I didn't have the problem - my line manager did! If anyone needed help she did! (like trying to get her head out of her a*se)
I went to the union, but the whole procedure put the bullied in the wrong - the picked on are just causing trouble - if you lose your claim - you lose your job!
As we were about to be split into 2 departments I decided to wait and hope line manager and i chose different departments - or I would have to leave.
I chose the one I thought she was least likely to go for she of course didn't give her decision until the last minute.
Finally I had a 'capability procedure' because of my sickness absence - usually Thursdays, as my stress levels were at a peak by then!
By now there was a new manager (higher than the line manager). Line manager was still around but due to move within the month.
I just printed out my diary and showed it to the union - the rep couldn't make the meeting but said I had the upper hand.
I gave it to the manager the day before the meeting. I also gave a copy to my sister - who happens to be a manager. My sister was horrified. She said you could see my stress levels going up by what I wrote, and insisted on coming to the meeting with me.
The manager was really nice - he was a bit shaken by what I'd written - he'd been in the same department as us, and knew the woman, but I have to admit he'd nt had much to do with her, but the other manager who attended, from another department, was a friend of hers.

Line manager was there for another month and the new manager made sure she had nothing to do with me. Even now, if she or her 'bestest pal' contact me, my new manager wants to know, and insists that if they send me an e-mail I forward it to him.

Now have a new line manager and the atmosphere of the place has changed beyond recognition! It's (almost) a joy to go to work!

Union still have a copy of the diary, and my manager knows I have a copy and to be honest they were scared sh*tless I would go further and accuse them (the council) of derivation fo care to their staff, or go to the press.
I know I'm not the only one who has been bulllied by a jumped up 'manager' created by their new procedures. We have a woman joining our department soon, who I know was also being bullied - and I let the management know!

One day soon, I will go through my diary, remove the names and ask the union to submit it to head of HR (so I remain anonymous) as an example of how their poxy ideas - enabling non-managerial people to have power over another person can affect the lives of the 'underlings'.


Sorry to ramble, but you're not alone Colin. As others have said - write it down. Don't go back and read it - it's too depressing - just get it down on paper.

maggiexx

My son and his colleagues are getting this since the episode with the sweeping, or non sweeping of a warehouse, happened, no bonuses since and targets constantly raised, and so much unpleasantness. They are classed as self employed so haven't a leg to stand on apparently, but my lad is looking for a new job and has an interview next week, altho at 11am so is trying to change it. It's at a mortgage company near where he works now, sounds a bit like a call centre type place but says he doesn't want to take a half day holiday to go in case it's only about £10,000 and commission etc, as that isn't any good to him, and would be similar pressure as where he is now.
Wish they would sack them all so he could apply for funding for retraining, would be much his best option and might give him a more solid future.

Lizx

I am sure I saw something in an advice column recently about companies having a duty of care and responsibilty for stopping stress to the workforce.

Lizx

Dear All

Hello,

Yes, I have experienced bullying in the workplace.

Under the Health and Safety at Work Act, 1974, the employer has to take all reasonable steps to look after your health - alll aspects.
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For substantial information on handling workplace bullying:

www.bullyonline.org
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I would suggest that anyone who is experiencing this behaviour gets copies of the following policies from their employer:

1. Stress at work policy.

2. How the employer deals with bullying in the workplace.

3. Health and safety policy.

4. How a performance review/appraisal is done.

5. How the employer deals with performance/capability issues

6. Grievance and disciplinary procedures.

7. Sickness policy.

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No one has to suffer any type of victimisation and bullying in the workplace.
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Hope this helps

Best wishes to all
xx

Colin,We have it in our work place now.5 people have already left but one has taken it higher.Was off with Work Related Stress and asked HR for a grievence.That woman has finally come back to work after 2 months off.The staff now that are frightened of our manager are all totaly ignoring her.She told me earlier on she will now leave.What a shame. Annie

Colin, do phone the trust and see what they advise.
It is often comforting to actually talk to someone.
Deanna X

Have been on the ACAS site and some really useful information on there - thanks havent heard of the Andrea Adams Trust but will have a peek to see what they suggest - it is helping to 'talk' to you peeps so thanks for listening...As you might imagine I have a throbbing headache right now and am already absolutely dreading tomorrow

BULLY HELP LINE...ANDREA ADAMS TRUST
01273/704-900.

WWW.andreaadamstrust.org

for fact sheet.

ACAS 0845-747474


Hi Colin, a few numbers to get you started.
If however, they have changed, they will be easily found again.
Don't take the bullying and it is not right that anyone should make your working life a misery.
Good luck with that.
So sad that people can get enjoyment out of upsetting people especially when they are in a position of the tiniest bit of power!!

I hope I have managed to help a wee bit.
Deanna X

I hate this kind of thing. In Australia company bosses have what's called a "duty of care" which generally means they are obliged - by law - to make sure your work place is a safe and stress-free environment in which to do your work. I should imagine this is in place in the UK. Bullying is a rising problem in the workplace and results in loss of productivity so the government should look at ways of dealing with this problem. Colin you've received good advice and I really hope you can resolve this issue.

Sue x

Thanks I have started to gather evidence including the amount of work and projects that land on my desk as opposed to the other managers - looking at last week alone I had 75% against their 25% of actions to complete. ACAS has been suggested a number of times both on here and in PM so its something I will definately consider.

Colin,

As others have said, document everything.

Is there a head office you can contact?

We need someone from HR to advise here.

http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=306&p=0

Rose

Colin, l really hate bullys in the workplace, a few weeks ago l popped in to Mcd's for a drink and the manager was really shouting at a young girl and all the rest of the staff were laughing at her, l didn't find this funny, also the manager loved being the center of attention, when the poor girl went into the toilets l went to see if she was alright, poor thing said she couldn't report her as she'd lose her job, well l wasn't going to let this bully get away with it so l phoned the head office up and made a complaint, what also annoyed me was that all the customers could hear what was going on, hopefully something was done about it. I hope you get some satisfaction from someone, best of luck............