General Chat

I totally agree, Laura. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone, I can't see why any form of marriages can't be legally recognised.

But Uggers, the same could be said about pagan handfastings - legal in Scotland but not in England.

I don't have a problem recognising Muslim marriages without separate civil ceremonies, but then one has to be completely balanced and allow that for all religions.

Britain is a secular country and as such, religious laws are nothing to do with the judicial system - and long may it be!!

I fail to see why on the whim of one section of society we should change the ways of centuries.

maggie

Laura, I agree about laws staying secular. But, for example, allowing Muslim marriages without a civil ceremony would not be bringing religion into the law but just recognising it's legality and giving it the same status as any other religious marriage with legal status.

I agree laura,

I m C ofE but no matter, i think the church can be hypocritcal but i agree with you on the laws of he land,

caz xxx

PS - Ann we do teach Islam in schools. Along with Judaism, Sikhism, Ba;'hai, Buddhism and many others.

Each local education authority has what is known as a SACRE, a panel of representatives of teachers, union members, authority members and reps from different religions who decide what is taught in our schools. RE is not on the national curriculum, but is an obligatory subject, hence each authority has its own panel.

I would dispute the fact that GB is a christian country in as much as most people here are not practicing christians. It seems to be, if you haven't got a religion, or aren't particularly bothered, you tick CofE by default.

I 100% believe our law needs to stay secular. As it is. Not Christian, not shariah, but British Law.

If people come to live here, they need to embrace our culture and abide by our laws - that DOESN't mean be Christian.

And before anyone asks I was born and bred here in Plymouth/Cornwall. I'm not Christian, but no I'm not aetheist as I follow a religion, just not that of Christ.

Laura

The trouble is Uggers is that the illegal ones arent paying taxes, whatever religion they may be and as has been proved , child benefit is being sent from us tax payers back to their countries....wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!

Caz x

Hello again, Ann:) We'll have to agree to differ - I would think that the majority of British Muslims are from immigrant families so you could say that the religion was brought in. But then so was Christianity and I don't personally feel that GB is an especially Christian nation now.

Our country has always had waves of immigrants and each wave has changed to some degree the nature of our country. If people are living in this country and paying taxes, whether they are first generation or 100th I believe they rightfully have a say in the way the country is run. Live and let live and all that.

There are numerous similarities between Judaism, Christianity and Islam - they are all based on the Book of Abraham. Abraham is the one constant in all 3 religions.
Judaism came first, from Judaism came Chrtistianity, which encompasses both religions (Old Testament and New Testament)
Islam came from Christianity. Much of the Qu'ran is based on the Bible. Christmas is mentioned in the Qu'ran, as is Jesus, as, like Mohammed, Jesus is acknowledged as a prophet of God.
Believe it or not it is in The bible - not the Qu'ran where people are told to dress modestly. Of course how 'modestly' is interpreted is up to the religious leaders!!

Shariah law is already in use within the Moslem community in this country, but isn't the best place for a Moslem woman to turn to if there are marital problems.
Jewish religious law is also in use - if a Jewish woman obtains a civil divorce from her husband - under Jewish religious law she is still married to her husband - rather like Roman Catholicism.

My argument against the Archbishops speech is that like Christianity, there are many facets of Islam. Shariah law isn't the only Islamic law to follow, like Papal Bulls of the Catholic church aren't the only religious laws for Christians to follow.
We either take all the different aspects of Islamic law or none at all.

Personally, I feel people have come to live in Britain. and should either accept 'our' ways or go away.
In Nigeira, Moslems there are telling Christians if they don't like Shariah law they should leave!!

Problem with the 'powers that be' in this country is they don't know enough about anything, particularly Islam, and are frightened of coming across as not 'PC', hence they open their mouths before engaging brain and come out with some idiotic soft-soaping crap.

BTW my dad was a convert to Islam. He didn't follow Shariah Law - he lived by the Qu'ran, which in it's original form is a very gentle and peace loving book. Because he didn't follow any 'sect' ie neither Sunni nor Shi'a, he taught Religious studies in Saudi Arabia.
One thing he did say was, that Islam is very sexist!!

maggie

thanks for the support Caz - I didn't think I was alone in my thinking. I have actually visited a Muslim temple here in Cardiff after asking questions about the religion through my local newspaper. An Imam from a local temple invited my friend and I to visit and I must say it was a very enlightening and enjoyable afternoon and I couldn't help being struck by the numerous similarities between Christianity and Islam. Quite a surprise

Hi Dave,I agree totally Ann and Joyous, we are a Christian country.Yes other religions are present, respected and part of our diversity.

But ultimately we are a Church of England country.

Caz x

surely British citizens who are Muslim got their religion from somewhere else - we never taught it in our schools they brought it with them from wherever they came from - I disagree with many of the laws of our country but I shall not be buggering off anywhere, I shall protest as is my right as a British citizen. If Muslims want full Muslim law, whatever that may be, they should not get it here because I believe that this is a Christian nation - they are welcome to live here but do not interfere with what was here centuries before they arrived. We would not think of doing that in Muslim countries - we weren''t raised like that - we were brought up to respect the religions and customs of others but we do not want it foisted on us - well I don't anyway.

i find it wrong that children dont have an asembly,where they sing hymns and say prayers.
also were not encouraged to call it xmas,but winter holidays.
the jewish community have got it right ,they teach there own,this does,nt effect us at all.and they can concentrate on there beliefs.

I haven't read much about this so forgive me if I've got the smelly end of the stick! lol. But wasn't the archbishop advocating some of the values of Sharia law rather than the introduction of the laws themselves?

As I understand it, British law as it stands is devoid of any religion, even Christianity. And that's the way I would like it to stay as I believe in the old addage "if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile"...and I wouldn't like to see ANY religion governing the law of the land.

But, Ann, what about British citizens who are also Muslim? What about those who are from here and who don't like the laws and haven't got anywhere to bugger off too? I've protested against laws that I felt needed changing - where should I have buggered off too?

Basically, I respect the law and customs of countries I visit, I expect them to do the same when in the UK. If they don't want to do that, then the simple answer is - bugger off!!

Uggers

That was exactly my point, UK law can be changed by Parliament or by judicial interpretation.
Laws imported from external sources are beyond the influence of our legislature and cannot be changed by them.

I was only using the gay right scenario as an example, amongst others, of how a step originally put forward on the grounds to decriminalise private behaviour has developed to encompass partnership, tenancy, pension, custody, reproduction and so on, well beyond the stated aims of the original advocates.

As I said, the European Union has developed in the same way, by a series of "tidying up" exercises and using Health and Safety, Competition or Human Rights to move towards a condition which politicians involved deny to be the target until it is reached.

♫¸, the law is a constantly changing thing and always has been - how wrong would it be to still have laws which enabled children to be hung or transported for theft? Those were changed by British people.

Brian and Mick, in what way would it be a problem for anyone to allow Muslims to legally marry in their own religious buildings instead of having to have a religious ceremony and a legal ceremont as they do now? How would that be absurd or the thin end of the wedge.

Brian, of course the laws on homosexuality developed. Society has become more tolerant and civilised.

why can't we keep british laws british if you dont like them don't live here and i'm not racist