Genealogy Chat

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I received an e-mail the other day asking about one of my ancestors Eliza Jane Daniel 1884 - the sister of my great Grandmother Mary Elizabeth Daniel 1874 we both agree on all the other siblings - but the parents names have got us confused Mary's marriage certifacte says her father was Samuel Daniel, Master Mariner and I've found the family 1881-1901, showing her mother was Jane B (nee Bowden) But, this lady's great grandmother has told her that Eliza's parents were James Stewart & Olive Brandreth. Now Usually i would dismiss this as a bit of confusion, as I've found the family (via census & certificates) but the name Brandreth appears on my branch, as Mary's eldest daughter was called Jane Brandreth Bache. I've looked for Jane B - as Jane Brandreth, but no luck there What do you think?

Well, you have the certificate and she has an old lady' s memory!!!

How do you both agree on the names of the siblings? Family stories or information from certificates and censuses? What do the formal sources say? Is there a marriage for James Stewart and Olive? Do they appear on censuses? Could the younger girl be adopted?

If Eliza's parents were JAMES STEWART & OLIVE BRANDRETH then why is her surname DANIELS. Could she be a sister in law to your gran? Claire

Oops, as usual I've misread half the posting. But is there no certificate for the younger sister?

when and where have you placed the marriage of jane Bowden/Brandreth with Daniel? I must admit the middle name of the daughter would cause me to stop and wonder too. When you say all the other siblings ... no distictive names amongst them?, all elizabeth william edwards.... jess

As there are seven years between birth and first census, is it possible that Eliza is an adopted sister?

I think this is Samuel and Jane in 1871. View Record Catherine W Balderson abt 1856 Liverpool Visitor Toxteth Lancashire View Record Mary E Boven abt 1806 Westminster, Middlesex, England Mother-in-law Toxteth Lancashire View Record Mary Causon abt 1795 Liverpool Visitor Toxteth Lancashire View Record Jane B Daniel abt 1844 Liverpool Wife Toxteth Lancashire View Record Jordan B Daniel abt 1870 Liverpool Son Toxteth Lancashire View Record Samuel Daniel abt 1841 Byford, Devon, England Head Toxteth Lancashire

There is an Olive Brandreth Hughes who got married in March 1884 at Prestwich, Lancashire, but it looks as though she married either George Holford or William Henry Shepherd. The year is interesting, though. It just reminds me of my grandfather (Alec Bristow)'s memoirs which he started dictating not long before he died, and he said, 'My father was Robert Salter'. That confused me for a while but it turned out his father was Robert Salter Bristow. So could it be that Olive Brandreth was actually Olive Brandreth Hughes? Kate.

And further to my previous, this can't be a coincidence!! Births Dec 1875 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel James Stewart W. Derby 8b 242 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Dec 1896 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel James Stewart Toxteth Park 8b 461 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Mar 1901 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel James Stewart Toxteth Park 8b 306 In case you're not familiar with 'cut and paste' from FreeBMD, it goes surname then first name(s) so the above was called James Stewart Daniel. Now to find out who he married...

looks like the oldest son Jordans middle name is Bradbury. Name: DANIELS, Jordan Bradbury Record Type: Births Quarter: March Year: 1870 District: West Derby County: Lancashire Volume: 8b Page: 310

Anyway, James Stewart Daniel can't have fathered a child in 1884 as he would only have been a child then, but this is his first marriage: Surname First name(s) District Vol Page --------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Dec 1896 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel James Stewart Toxteth Park 8b 461 Edwards Rachel Toxteth Park 8b 461 Kirkham Louisa Agnes Toxteth Park 8b 461 Rankine David Andrew Toxteth Park 8b 461 then there is this: Deaths Dec 1898 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Rachel 23 Toxteth Park 8b 192 so presumably his first wife was Rachel Edwards then his second marriage: Marriages Mar 1901 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel James Stewart Toxteth Park 8b 306 Hazzard Sarah Emily Toxteth Park 8b 306 Mavers Annie Gertrude Toxteth Park 8b 306 Unwin Henry Stanley Toxteth Park 8b 306 hmmm... seems to me that the old lady is a bit confused? But my guess is that both Olive Brandreth Hughes and James Stewart Daniel are connected with your family in some way. It just may take some ferreting out! Kate.

Looks like Jane with mother Mary who is on the 1871 census with her. 1861 census. View Record Jane Bowdon abt 1844 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Daughter Toxteth Park Lancashire View Record John Bowdon abt 1804 Mellen, Denbighshire, Wales Head Toxteth Park Lancashire View Record John Bowdon abt 1837 Lancashire, England Son Toxteth Park Lancashire View Record Mary Elizabeth Bowdon abt 1806 London, Middlesex, England Wife Toxteth Park Lancashire In 1871 mothers name looks like Bowen on image.

Er... would you believe this is James Stewart Daniel in 1881? View Record Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Residence View Image View Record Ellen J. Daniel abt 1879 Lpool, Lancashire, England Daughter 8 Modred St, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England View Record James S. Daniel abt 1876 Lpool, Lancashire, England Son 8 Modred St, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England View Record Jane Daniel abt 1843 Bideford, Devon, England Wife 8 Modred St, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England View Record Jordan B. Daniel abt 1870 Lpool, Lancashire, England Son 8 Modred St, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England View Record Mary E. Daniel abt 1874 Lpool, Lancashire, England Daughter 8 Modred St, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England View Record Maud E. Daniel abt 1877 Lpool, Lancashire, England Daughter 8 Modred St, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England View Record Samuel Daniel abt 1841 Bideford, Devon, England Head 8 Modred St, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England So he was the brother of your Eliza and Mary, but perhaps he had a daughter called Eliza Jane too? Kate.

right thanks for the info everybody. Somethings I obvisloy haven't already cleared up the person who contacted me said it was James Stewart Daniel & Olive Brandreth who were Eliza's parents (This info was given by her great garndmother, who appears to be Eliza's daughter) I have found from census's that Eliza's & Mary's siblings were Jordan Bradbury, James Stewart, Maud Ethel, & Ellen Jane Great Grandma says ellen j, jane, jordan b, mary e, and maud ethel, & her grandma remembers ellen, jane, samuel, mary and maud. Brother, James Stewart Daniel(1875) married Rachel Edwards, who gave birth to Jordan Bradbury (after his brother?) and subsequently died. So he later married Annie Mavers with whom he had (at least) Leslie George Daniel & Annie Getrude Daniel I know Jane Bowden & Samuel daniel married between 1861-1871 (1861 - she's at home, he's in Malta with the Navy 1871: On the census together) Just can't find a reference for them yet I think I need to send for the birth certificate or search parish records for Eliza & Mary Elizabeth to confirm all of this.