Genealogy Chat

Can anyone tell me what these Irish names are in English, Eleanoram ( Female) Mariam ' Margarittam ' Annum ' ' Thomam ( Male ) Carolum '

They look to me like Eleanor, Marion, Margaret, Thomas, and Carol, or Caroline.

In Latin

No The Name Carolum in a (Male ) not female. Well if they are latin Does anyone know what they are. Also what is Annum (Female)

Carolum + Charles, Annum + Anne. All written in the best 'Dog Latin' - as used by Priests who did not have a proper knowledge of Latin, but knew enough to make entries in a Register. (Males names end in -us in Latin, female end in -a: the suffix -um is used for inanimate objects!) Olde Crone

Perhaps ''Annum'' was actually ''Annam'' and the script had faded? Those ''m''s on the end suggest they are mentioned in the middle of a sentence where something was done to them... along the lines of ''This day I baptised Name Surname.'' rather than ''Name Surname was baptised.'' Christine

annum could be Latin for year, or a crude attempt at Ann. I also think Carolum is likely to be Charles. nell

Thanks to everyone for their help with the Irish names. Betty Boo

Carolum is definitely Charles - the reign of Charles I & II are referred to as the Carolian era of English history Mariam is Mary Jay

What date are these? I would look through some Irish names at http://www.behindthename[.]com/nmc/iri[.]php (Sorry if GR deliberately corrupt the URL) It could be an attempt to spell Irish names by someone who did not speak Gaelic? MB

Just tracked down an answer I posted on the nicknames/Peggy thread. It seems relevant here: I found an online copy of the Vulgate (i.e. old Latin) Bible [http://www.latinvulgate.*com] with a parallel translation into English. If the priest didn't really know his Latin, but cribbed it without full understanding from the Vulgate... all these names orinally appear in the accusative case - with ''am/um/em'' at the end, in the context of Jesus calling them to be his disciples. (I = J) Simon = Simonis Peter = Petrus Andrew = Andreas James = Iacobus John = Iohannis Philip = Philippus Bartholomew = Bartholomeus Matthew = Mattheus Thomas = Thomas Alpheus = Alpheus (father of the second James) Jude = Iudas Christine

It's the same with me. I have two Patrick's in my family who were written down as Patricium and Patricii. I don't know why they were different spellings and I have someone known as Sebiannae. Siobhan is the only thing I can think of. Kirsten.

The different Latin spellings of Patrick aren't so much different spellings as a reflection of Latin grammar. Latin (like German) has different word-endings according to what purpose the word has in a sentence: that's one reason why word-order doesn't matter that much in Latin. The one ending ''ii'' is a possessive - ''Patrick's'' or ''of Patrick''. The one ending with ''m'' is accusative (not as bad as it sounds!) which means that Patrick was having something done to him - e.g. it might say in the Register ''I baptised Patrick''. It's just like the way we use: he / she / it him / her / it his / her / its but more complicated because there are more different endings. Christine

Christine, thank you for clarifying that for me! You learn something new everyday! Thank you. Kirsten

Well thanks to everyone i think the Latin names are unusual but I now know all the English names for this family, thanks for all your help.

Sorry - should have made clear. Their names will almost certainly be English, just that the Registers were written up in Latin in certain (usually catholic) circumstances. That is the names were translated for the specific purpose of the Registers. Christine