Genealogy Chat

Hi I'm relatively new to doing this whole Family Tree thing properly, I have a lot of information on a lot of branches of both my tree and my husband's tree, mostly from conversations with my now deceased Great-Aunt and on my hubby's side from conversations with his Grandma (who sometimes misses out vital information but tries her hardest!...) Have discovered BMD, IGI and most recently Curious Fox but Genes is providing the mainstay of my information. However I'm really curious about how I can find out about my Great-Aunt's marriage, which (so i've been told) was annulled for 'non-consumation'. When I went to my parents' last weekend my dad found lots of photos of their wedding (which was exciting for me). He thinks the man was called 'Reg' but doesn't know the surname. My Great Aunt was Winifred Lilian Adams, born 1912 I think. (Fulham/Hammersmith/Roehampton/London area), died 1999 in Roehampton. Then my dad said that he came across the papers with the annulment (printed in reverse apparantly ie white on black rather than black on white) when they were clearing out my Great Aunt's house when she died. And they threw them away...AAAAAGGGH!! So what can I do? I have so many questions - they may all go unanswered... What was his name? Why wasn't the marriage consummated? (They look happy in the photo!) Was he gay? Did he marry again? Did he have any children if he did? etc etc!! I'd love to know! Anyone got any ideas or advice?!! Thanks for reading my story anyway! Abi

Abigail GR always crunches up the first posting on a new thread, so I'm taking the liberty of trying to make your message more readable: Marriage annulled - how can I find out about it?? I'm really curious about how I can find out about my Great-Aunt's marriage, which (so i've been told) was annulled for 'non-consumation'. When I went to my parents' last weekend my dad found lots of photos of their wedding (which was exciting for me). He thinks the man was called 'Reg' but doesn't know the surname. My Great Aunt was Winifred Lilian Adams, born 1912 I think. (Fulham/Hammersmith/Roehampton/London area), died 1999 in Roehampton. Then my dad said that he came across the papers with the annulment (printed in reverse apparantly ie white on black rather than black on white) when they were clearing out my Great Aunt's house when she died. And they threw them away...AAAAAGGGH!! So what can I do? I have so many questions - they may all go unanswered... What was his name? Why wasn't the marriage consummated? (They look happy in the photo!) Was he gay? Did he marry again? Did he have any children if he did? etc etc!! I'd love to know! Anyone got any ideas or advice?!! Thanks for reading my story anyway! Abi

You would need to find the marriage cert first, I think, which means trawling through the GRO marriage registers. Does the wedding photo give an idea of which decade? The document your dad destroyed sounds like one I have (ie white on black) which was my father-in-law's divorce papers. I imagine there would be legal documents somewhere about annulments, but not sure where.

Did she revert to her maiden name and then never re-married?? This may be her death reg, in case you don't have it: Name: Winifred Lilian Adams Death Year: 1999 Age: 87 Birth Date: 9 Nov 1912 Death Registration Month/Year: May 1999 Registration District: Wandsworth Inferred County: Greater London Inferred Country: England Register Number: C104A Entry number: 130 Merry

Wow! Merry how did you find that? I was reading one of your other good deeds that you'd done for someone - you're obviously an expert! Abi

Decade-wise it was in presumably mid-late 1930's. The photos are taken in the back garden of my Grandma's home (my Great-Aunt's sister) as apparantly their parents didn't approve of the marriage! No idea why though... I've found it impossible to find Winifred on BMD - maybe I'm not doing it right? Anyway have got in touch with some other people who also have 'Winifred LIlian Adams'es but no connections. Feel it's a bit of a brick wall for me as she was the last of the people on that side taht my dad was really in contact with (other than christmas cards). Also discovered at the weekend that her cousin' s family's descendants still live at no. 3 in the road where she lived at no.5) and presumably they woul know more but that the two families didn't get on and fought - so unsure as to whether I can approach them or how to go about it? Have a beautiful photo of my Grandma, Winifred my Great Aunt, and we think the two cousins (whose descendants live next door) as children sitting in a country garden. Stunning photo... must be in the 1918-1922 time frame... Anyway will think on more.. thanks for your interest!! Abi

You are very kind..........I think I have been lucky with a couple of things today................... The death reg was from Ancestry. They have indexes for post 1983 BMD's - fully searchable.....if only the 1930's were the same!! Merry

If the occupants at No 3 fought with the occupants of No 5 the current occupants would very likely know all about the bone of contention and be happy to tell you about it. How about getting a copy of the fabulous photograph made, take it around one afternoon and tell them that because you know their relatives are in the photo you thought it would be nice if they had a copy of it - and take it from there. None of you were part of the fight and they are more than likely very nice people who would make you welcome. You can but try and have nothing to lose. Victoria

Anyone else got any ideas about this?!! Thanks Abi

A friends sister had her marriage annulled for the same reason about 15 years ago - she had to undergo a very stringent medical examination to prove that she was still virgo intacta - BUT she was and had a certificate to prove it. This was used in her case against the man she was married to (they were together about 7 years!!!!) Its very rare - the doctor and the lawyer who dealt with the case had never had anything like that before but both said that the procedure had been the same for over 100 years then!

The problem is, it will be very difficult to find evidence of the marriage - once it has been annulled, the original marriage entry at the GRO will be suppressed by the Registrar, and you will, in theory, be told that no marriage took place. Why dont you write/visit the 'other side', showing the photo you have and remarking innocently that you wonder why your Great Aunt never married? They may let something slip in their eagerness to correct you! I knew someone whose marriage was annulled after 23 years, for non-consummation! I did wonder why they waited so long. I also know another couple, bawdy and the salt of the earth, who were unable to consummate their mariage for three years, due to the bride's extreme ignorance of such matters! (They went on to have three children, so she obviously got the hang of it quite quickly) Olde Crone

Old Crone So if we have a marriage that has been annulled, even if we have the ref from indexes it won't appear?? this has me curious... cos m-i-l said her first marriage was annulled. Never thought to look into it before reading this thread.

Shelli If you have the GRO ref for a marriage which was later annulled, and you send for a copy of it, you should in theory, get the reply: We are unable to supply the certificate you requested, as the information supplied by you does not match our records. Because - you asked for a Marriage Certificate. The marriage was annulled, and therefore, legally, did not ever take place. Of course, this is what OUGHT to happen. But a busy clerk in the RO may not notice the marginal information that the certificate should be suppressed, and they may send it anyway. A possible other route to search - if the marriage took place in a Church, the entry will still be available to view. The Registrar was supposed to inform the Vicar that an annullment had taken place, and the Vicar was supposed to scratch out or obliterate the entry, but I am sure you can see that this may not always have happened. Olde Crone

Olde Crone Thanks for that!!! Am not going to send for the cert, as I already know about it. Can't ask m-i-l about it as she's been recently bereaved, so might have alok in the parish registers just to satisfy my curiousity once kids are back at school. Shelli

Thanks guys for all your help and advice - I'm moving this week so probably won't have much time to do Family Tree research etc but thank you for all your help! I will let you know how I get on when i do get in touch with the people at no. 3! in the meantime I'm intending to raid my parents' house with them for anything they may have overlooked - I'm still hopeful my Dad didn't throw away all those documents!! Thanks Abi

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