Genealogy Chat

I came across this on my travels and was wondering where she could have been born if not on land nor sea,

'May 17 1722,Hannah,the Daughter of Henry Barten, junior, was born nether by land nor sea'

I have to bump this one up to see what the oracles have to say!

This could be very interesting and it would be good if you could share with us the context in which you discovered this. I think it's a coded way of saying that the family were atheist, at a time when it was difficult to admit. I hold to no religion or creed, am neither Eastern nor Western, Muslim or infidel, Zoroastrian, Christian, Jew or Gentile. I come from neither the land nor sea, am not related to those above or below, was not born nearby or far away, do not live either in Paradise or on this Earth, claim descent not from Adam and Eve or the Angels above. I transcend body and soul. My home is beyond place and name. It is with the beloved, in a space beyond space. I embrace all and am part of all. Persian Poet, Moulana Jalaledin-e Rumi 1207-1273 AD

Ummm... the only thing I can think of is she was born on a river? Either that or she was found under a gooseberry bush! Kate.

Wow Paul, that is brilliant! Can we hear more detail of where this birth was found and the circumstances PLEASE.

On the moon?

Sylvia, please tell us more details. Im really intrigued now. Did they have 'humanists' back then anyone?

How interesting! That line must have been imprinted on your mind Paul - neither from land or sea. Will follow this one.

Well, it sounds like an entry from a Parish Register, but only noting the birth of a child, which would fit with Paul's idea perfectly. My own Quaker relations were noted in the C of E PR's around 1700 as having been born, but their particular vicar obviously wasn't as well read as Sylvia's one! Merry

(Oooh, Paul, you're ever so well-read...) Yes, I think this is the Vicar's 'reminder note to himself'. Dont forget that Parish Registers were never intended to be seen by the great unwashed, they were more or less private, for the use of the Church only. Many Vicars of this period |(in my experience anyway) used the PR as a sort of diary and also wrote personal comments about people, which they presumably did not transcribe into the Bishops copy of the Registers. For instance Jane Bloggs, posthumous daur of Joe Bloggs and his wife Mary Bloggs - she says. Burial Thomas Green - a very tall man. Burial Mary Holden, a great and incontinent whore. Tuesday 3rd May 1721 - a very windy, wet day. And so on. Very interesting though and I'm dead impressed with Paul! Olde Crone

I think I've impressed myself here too. So, Crone,... what's this about a great and incontinent whore? I don't think she was in need of Tena Lady panties.... it must mean that she could not contain her urges. But how would the vicar know? Hmmmm...

Paul I dont think he had personal knowledge of her, if you get my drift, he was just aping his betters....Mary Holden and Thomas Holden got what must have been one of the first ten divorces ever granted, in 1603. Thomas and Mary fling mud at each other, and Mary sues Thomas for libel (she meant slander, I think), because Thomas was in the Alehouse calling his estranged wife a great and incontinent whore! They got their divorce though. (Oh, my family make me laugh so much, nothing has changed in 400 years) Olde Crone

Sorry, i did keep checking back til it became late here in OZ and bedtime. It was found on a piece of paper pasted in the front of the parish record for St Michaels, Derby. I was reading the notes on the conditions of the books, when i found it and thats the only info it gave, so wondered what your theories about it would be. here is title of the page, Marriages at St. Michael's, Derby from Phillimore Parish Registers Its on ukancestry.co.uk

bump for the interested ones

I'd be happy if I could find anything on mine in 1603! I have some uncorroborated IGI entries from the mid-18th century but the earliest definite record is a baptism in 1835.