Find Ancestors

You're very welcome Jean. :-)

Thanks, to the gentle help of Cynthia, I hope I am using this GR feature more correctly now. I apologize for earlier mistakes. Though I've used computers for 25 years and done family research for 50 years, my 75 year old brain sometimes struggles to make changes with familiar websites.

I should have stated more clearly that my Antrim/Antrom/Antram family work is almost completed for the American side. This is thanks, to the 1899 book Records of the AntrimFamily in America by Harriet Stockton Antrim. Also in 2013 I spent five days in Burlington, New Jersey, where the owner of the Inn where I stayed shared information from her personal reference library about early Quakers and Burlington. Having Quaker ancestors is also helpful..

I made a mistake when I first posted my message to GR because I didn't clarify that my need was only for English facts. I also now know that there seems to be an almost "instant" message feature used to communicate through GR. Because I'm involved in five civic volunteer organizations that send emails that need prompt replies, I find that I take longer to review and reply to family history contacts.

I end by saying to all thanks for your patience, information and assistance.
Jean

Thanks. Wondered where you came into things. Have a feeling that Jean isn't that used to computers - maybe wrong of course. :-)

I did tell Jean that if she put "John Antram, Salisbury, UK" in the search engine she would get a wealth of information

I put a stack of info on here for Jean, but despite several requests for some response from her I deleted the lot - I spent a few hours finding it all - perhaps I shouldn't have deleted it all, but I was just exasperated

I have received a message from Jean who is still stuggling to use the site. She mentions AnnCardiff - was there a post from you on here Ann which you have deleted Ann?

I don;t know if you already have this but it does tie in with what Mike posted,worth the read.



Thomas Antram of Salem, MA Not the Father of John


Posted by: Michael Evans (ID *****6861)
Date: September 02, 2007 at 17:15:28



of 336



John Antrum/Antram/Antrim of Burlington Quaker MM: Son of Thomas of Salem?

Some of what we know about Thomas Antrum of Salem and John Antram of West Jersey:

1. Northhampton Twsp, Burlington Co., NJ, census records of 1709, give the age of John Antram as 52 and wife, Frances Antram, as 50. This would make John’s birth abt. 1657, and Frances, abt. 1659.

2. The Burlington MM of Quakers shows their marriage as June 15, 1682.

3. These records also show the births of their children between 1683 and 1693.

4. Records from Robert Anderson’s, The Great Migration, 1633-1635, A-B, shows a John Antrum, bp. Salem 29 March 1646. Anderson suggests that he "evidently died unmarried before 1663", because he is not mentioned in the will of Thomas Antrum of 1663. This Thomas Antrum, was a Puritan, arriving in Salem, in 1635, and admitted to the Salem Church in 24 March 1638/39.

5. The Great Migration, 1633-1635, A-B, that I located at the NH State Historical Library, did not list a James, bp. in 1657.

6. There were Quakers in New England by 1656. They were not well received, and laws were passed against them with severe penalties. Some were executed.

I do not believe that John Antram of Burlington Co, NJ, is the son of Thomas of Salem for the following reasons:

1. A John, son of Thomas of Salem, bp in 1646, would have been 36 when he married Frances Butcher in Burlington Co., NJ, in 1682. In that time, he would have been in his later years. He then fathered children for the next 10 years.

2. The Burlington Records are quite thorough and quite good. If the census report of 1709 is correct, the John Antram who married Frances Butcher in 1682, would have been 25 years old, a much more reasonable age for a man to marry and father children.

3. There were some fairly regular naming patterns among the colonial people. Often, not always, but often, the first born son would be named after the father’s father. John and Frances’ first born was named John. Thomas was the third born child.

4. Unless an addition was added to the Anderson sketch about Thomas of Salem, there was no son named James, bp. in 1657. I have a copy of the Salem Church Records, and I find no son James born to Thomas Antrum in 1657, either. I did find, "Jon, son of Thomas Antrum." I have written to both Robert Anderson and the NEHGS to see if there was this addition in a second edition, perhaps, but at this writing, I have not heard from them.

5. There is no record of a John Antram being a member of any Quaker organization in New England. The first records of John Antram as a Quaker are from the records in New Jersey.

6. Thomas of Salem’s will is probated in 1663. If his son John is the same John we find as a Quaker in West Jersey in 1680, where was he from 1663 until 1680? I find it hard to believe there would be no record of his for 17 years. New England has some of the finest colonial records available.

Thanks for your interest in the Great Migration Study Project, and for your
e-mail of 26 August.

My account of Thomas Antrum in the Great Migration series of volumes does
not include a son James baptized at Salem in 1657. Of the three sons of
Thomas Antrum, only Obadiah lived to marry, and he did not do so until about
1664. He died very soon, and apparently left no children, so there are no
descendants of Thomas Antrum, the immigrant, in the male line after the
second generation.

The Salem church records for the period of interest have been published, and
there is no James Antrum baptized there in 1657. So I would say you are
correct in stating that there is no demonstrable link between Thomas Antrum
of Salem and the Antrums of New Jersey.



Again, thanks for your interest.

Bob Anderson
Director, Great Migration Study Project


Notify Administrator about this message? Followups:

Re: Thomas Antram of Salem, MA Not the Father of John Jean Sundborg 3/29/14
Re: Thomas Antram of Salem, MA Not the Father of John Stuart woolman 5/06/08

Just a possible , but in the correct area .


England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906 about John Antram
Name: John Antram
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 12 Jan 1650
Christening Place: Salisbury, Wiltshire, England
Father's Name: William Antram.

It is possible he was bn before 1650 and bapts later.

Jean hopes this will reach Mike who sent me info on John Antram. Unfortunately, I am in the minority of Antram/Antrim researchers who does not accept the Salem, Essex, Massachusetts, USA birth place, and mother name.

I posted my query on GR because I am trying to find John's parents and his English birth place. Several serious researchers have stated that the early dates used by the majority don't prove out.

With many thanks, for bearing with me as I try to use this portion of GR.
Jean

Hello Jean and welcome to the Community board.




(As Jean seems to be struggling with how to use the site, I have sent her some guidance) :-)

He married Frances Butcher also from England in New Jersey 1682. Most Antrams/Antroms/Antrims seem to have come from Salisbury, Wiltshire.